Some Questions on Tuning, mostly LSX...Please be nice and helpful.

[WeathermanShawn]

I apologize ahead of time as I am inexperienced in the tuning world. In fact I have not tuned a car (yet). I am stubborn and will teach my self how to do so by countless hours of reading and question asking. I have done much reading on the forum and books I have purchased and developed a few questions. Some of the questions pertain to LSx motors. So please reply only if you have something productive to offer to this thread. I thank you for your help.

Welcome to the forum. The traits you have described are common to many tuners..especially the stubborn part..

1.) The basis of tuning is to make the engine breath more efficient? The better the burn, the better the explosion, the better the cylinder pressure?

Exactly. Thats why I like higher CR engines..

2.) Is there a general table or map you create when tuning and the software automatically adjusts and creates a new map?

Not as easy as you described..but with smoothing features etc., it can almost be done..

3.) In the Corvette, the MAF is directly after the large airbox. The MAF has a straight through design with no honey comb. Does this negatively effect MAF output? Is it beneficial to move it upstream?

Not sure of that exact answer. Some of us are not as anti-MAF as others. It is always a huge debate. I like the hybrid system..MAF and VE Table (blended). In any case, you do need a clean accurate MAF signal..

4.) Can you disable CAGS and enable fans to come on at earlier temps with EFI Live?

Absolutely!

5.) The addition of Headers is rumored to cause a lean mixture. Why is that? What would one do to correct that?

5.7ute's explanation is right on. I'll take the additional 15-25 HP/TQ and nice mellow sound..and just tune back to stoich AFR..

6.) What does the addition of a higher flowing CAI set-up do to the mixture?

If you can really get cooler denser air into engine..more HP/TQ. Sometimes though that additional air can create some turbulence with the MAF. That may relate to your previous question. The MAF can be re-calibrated appropriately though..

7.) Why can't the stock PCM tune compensate effectively for such mods?

Explained..



Sorry for all the questions. They are probably simple I just need to cover the basics before I can get more technical. Again thanks for the help.

Thats a good start. Just keep an open-mind though. Stubborn can be good..closed-minded might make tuning successfully a little more challenging..

Good luck!

[n8dogg]

Thanks for your helpful answers guys. I know some boards are ruthless to the new guys. Can anyone share some links or offer some specific Dos and Donts with tuning? Are there any videos out there that show the ropes of EFI Live? I will be contacting a few tune shops in NY to see if I can spend the day with them and monitor the tuning and hopefully learn a thing or two.

[5.7ute]

Once you have digested the stuff in Joe's profile page, follow the link in Redhardsupra's sig. His blog digs a bit deeper into the airmass models with a fair bit of math. There is also a lot of tools on that site which you will find more than helpful while tuning.
As for do's and dont's
Do
Log, log & log some more before making any changes.
Take all info on the internet for what it is, someones opinion & not fact.(Obviously this is only my opinion, or is it?) This site however is exempt from this most of the time
Give the engine what it wants, not what the internet says it needs.
Make small changes until familiar with the system & the required results & you guessed it, log some more & confirm.
Most of all have fun.
Dont's
Dont be afraid to post questions. Better to ask if unsure than destroy a perfectly good engine.
Don't play with timing until the airmass model is accurate (AutoVE, Automaf etc)
Don't work on the airmass model until the injector model is correct. (Or at least as good as you can get it)
Dont advance timing until KR & back off 2 degrees. This is a method, but not the correct method of adjusting timing.

[redhardsupra]

The "log BEFORE making any changes" rule cannot be stressed hard enough. No one does that, and it's the biggest downfall of us as a tuning community. We try to make cars behave after we installed mods, but we don't know what the behavior should look like in the scanner. Then how are you supposed to know what to aim for?!

The Internet is full of shit. Especially when it comes to science, as it's not opinion based. Some people can be more trusted than others. Some people I trust implicitly, but I still ask questions. Others are full of crap no matter how many years they've been trying to 'get it.' The less they explain and the more tell you to do things by fast and hard rules, the more likely they are to be full of shit.

The 'give engine what the engine wants, not what the Internet says' has two hidden gems: Learn to read logs. Be obsessive about it. Learn what it's trying to tell you. That's what tuning is. Pushing buttons and entering numbers is merely a formality. Knowing how to arrive at what numbers, where, and when to enter them is the Real Know-How (TM).

The second gem would be 'have a healthy dose of doubt in you at all times.' The fact that a lot of people repeat something, doesn't mean it's true, it just means that particular myth might have been around for longer than others. Old does not equal correct, and New does not mean better.
Making small changes and logging before and after is absolutely crucial, it is the entire idea of scientific inquiry. Without it it's just bunch of speculations. I remember this as 'one crime at a time' rule.

Asking questions is absolutely crucial. Contrary to popular opinion, there are plenty of stupid questions. Don't ask a question just because it went off in your head. Read first, gather data, maybe even carry out and experiment. Do your homework first, THEN ask. Unless it's potentially dangerous, then you wanna check first. When asking, show what you've tried, found, read, observed. This shows insight, interest, and respect. Questions like this will be answered with a corresponding respect and attention.

Remember that tuning is not a game of magic numbers. Magic numbers don't exist. Don't ask for steps and procedures, ask for derivations and explanations. If people don't want to give you a full answer, challenge them. Argue the math, methodology, assumptions, but don't argue a person. This is a highly evolving knowledge base, what was an established method last week might have been replaced by something better today. Don't be afraid to bring up old posts, they need to be modernized. Asking 'hey, does this still apply or do we know better now?' questions are much needed.

Umm... what else am I forgetting here?

[joecar]

Marcin, good post.

[5.7ute]

Umm... what else am I forgetting here?

How about "don't forget to log"
Great post Marcin.

[n8dogg]

How about "don't forget to log"
Great post Marcin.

I assume to "log" is to record data? I am very familiar with the Tech-2, so would that be like a snap shot?

[DrkPhx]

The "log BEFORE making any changes" rule cannot be stressed hard enough. No one does that, and it's the biggest downfall of us as a tuning community. We try to make cars behave after we installed mods, but we don't know what the behavior should look like in the scanner. Then how are you supposed to know what to aim for?!

The 'give engine what the engine wants, not what the Internet says' has two hidden gems: Learn to read logs. Be obsessive about it. Learn what it's trying to tell you. That's what tuning is. Pushing buttons and entering numbers is merely a formality. Knowing how to arrive at what numbers, where, and when to enter them is the Real Know-How (TM).

That's the best advice for anyone new to EFI and tuning, but really it's the core of true tuning. Log, log and then log again. More importantly learn how to objectively read and understand the logs so you can adjust the parameters correctly by giving the car what it needs and not what you think it wants.

[5.7ute]

I assume to "log" is to record data? I am very familiar with the Tech-2, so would that be like a snap shot?

A log in our terminology is a continuos stream of data collected when driving. You can define what data you want to record up to 24 channels.
The snapshot when a DTC is set is called a freeze frame here.

[WeathermanShawn]

Its great advice guys, but lets be honest. A lot of Marcin's rules are are contrary to human nature. The really smart people who have successfully learned to tune..follow Marcin's Commandments. The other 90% do not. Just look at the majority of threads posted. An incredible majority deal with issues that have been repeated over and over on this forum.

And IMO, as a tuning community we 'enable' people who do not follow the 'Commandments'. As Marcin quips 'We spoon feed them'. We do not enforce what we preach. We tell them what cable length to get for a wideband, what offset, what Trims are about..even if the day before it was addressed.

I joined this forum to be mentally stimulated and challenged. But, even though Marcin's Commandments have drawn great praise, I challenge all forum members to enforce them. Tell people to research before asking 'stupid questions', read, research, etc.

We do not do it. We all want to be liked, so we tell people how to do it, but fail to really challenge them to do it themselves.

Just my opinion fellow tuners. You wanted honesty and independent thinking. That is my take on Marcin's Commandments. They are only great if as a tuning community we enforce them.

Thanks for listening..