Shawn, this is for you:
http://www.dilbert.com/strips/comic/2010-05-31/
Shawn, this is for you:
http://www.dilbert.com/strips/comic/2010-05-31/
That pretty much sums it up Marcin.
Believe me, I have thought of just doing what you have done Marcin. Get my own website, do some research, add some notes, links etc. Then if people want help, they have 'one-stop shopping', so to speak. Its hard to help people and not get burned out in the process. Even this board has lifetime members you never hear from anymore..
I like your Commandments Marcin. How do you get people to follow them?
Guys thanks again for the info and help. I am looking for a challenge. The past 6 months I have felt a very large growth in intelligence, patience and prosperity in my outlook in life. I am a one man Corvette shop and believe it or not, it's become easy for me. I think tuning is a good way to test my abilities and hopefully gain some customers and have some fun. I am up for the challenge. Now I learn best by doing. Before I started my employment where I am now, I never touched a Corvette. I took the plunge with an open mind and today I feel pretty darn good about it. So here is my plan and please chime in with tips or encouragements.
I plan to purchase EFI Live with an LC1 WB02. With this I plan to play around with it on my 04 Z06. I hope to be able to learn how to read the graphs and maps and understand what they mean. I have never touched or seen any tuning software other than the free download of EFI Live. Can one with a decent head on his shoulders learn the Logging and proper adjustments by playing with the software and reading through this forum? I don't plan on doing any real extensive tuning (like from scratch) just minor adjustments to compensate for bolt ons.
My 2 bit essay...
Yes, one can learn... all of us here were raw noobies are some time (and all of us find we still have a lot to learn).
Take and read as many logs as you can... use the scantool->tunetool cursor linking feature to see the operating cells in each table.
Read a lot... some people like redhardsupra/Marcin have a mathematical background allowing the derivation of the VE equation(s)... others like 5.7ute/Mick have been experimenting with the injector characteristic tables... other people have other specialties, some people are able to understand an experiment and write it down in a clear manner that others can learn... some of us are DIY'r (able to concentrate on one thing) while others of us have tuning shops (able to see trends/patterns)... [sorry if I didn't mention everyone, you guys all know]... read a lot, try some things, and ask questions when not clear...
Like Marcin said, spoon-feed types of questions/answers (blindly following steps, blindly following internet lore) doesn't help someone to learn the what/why/how/if/where of the inner workings...
For example the AutoVE tutorial doesn't mention anything about disabling B4206 (since it was already disabled in the GM F-body files )...
so the people who understand the AutoVE objective will check that B4206 is disabled (or will see the VE going wrong and check for it)...
the people who are just blindly following steps do not check this and then find themselves with an incorrect VE table.
People who take the effort to understand how VE works (we were all noobs, so we read alot and asked alot) will easily see if AutoVE is heading in the right direction or if something is going wrong... same with AutoMAF, idle tuning, transmission tuning, etc...
Same with logged spark timing and dyncylair (airmass)... someone who is not just following steps will see when the timing-airmass correlation is broken...
With tuning it is not sufficient to know how to do something... it requires understanding why and understanding the effect on the system [big picture]...
[ don't get me wrong... steps are important, they are a sequential checklist, but by themselves they are not knowledge ]
This will be your new life, this is all you will think about from now on, and it is difficult material to wrap your mind around, if you're looking for challenges (plural) then you came to the right place...
Also keep this in mind: a car must be working properly before it can be tuned... tuning will not make a broken car run better.
$0.02
If you get FlashScan V2 (which costs more) you will find it very versatile, and it can read AFR/lambda/eqr from LC-1 (and other widebands) in serial/digital form.
And...
A credit to all EFILive forum members: everyone here is civilized and able to have a discussion without slugging/thumping/fighting.
Everyone here is very serious about tuning and very helpful toward fellow members in their efforts......an excellent group of people, very high caliber.
Thanks Joecar:
In the spirit of honesty..all you new tuners. If you want to keep us Veterans around, here are a few suggestions.
1. Get a Wideband. Even if you have to park your car for a month..please do it.
2. Use Spell-checker when posting. I am not trying to be an a.., since I know English is not everyone's first language (I am fluent in several foreign languages also).. I is capitalized..avoid run-on sentences, etc. Remember, the easier it for someone to read a post, the more likely they are to answer.
3. If your topic changes, start a new thread. Nothing worse than 70 posts of a thread that started with subject A, and in now on Z..A new thread makes reading easier.
Again, please take this is in the spirit of friendship. I am not trying to be an a..I am just giving further hints in the spirit of mutual cooperation.
You are more likely to keep the Veteran Tuners around if you add these to Marcin's Commandments.
Thanks again for listening..
This is the perfect example of a lot of things we've mentioned here:
http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29780
New guy comes in with some new ideas he read in a _really_ good book. What he's got is not perfect, but he's already thinking on a level that's above 99% of people on forums. Highly regarded veterans jump on him, and tell him to not complicate his life and just go with the 'tried and true' (read: old and busted) methods, preemptively ignoring his work (which btw is good, even though he's missing few pieces). No curiosity, no respect, lack of talent to recognize other talent. Bloody depressing if you ask me.
This just proves that above all, use your brain.
Interesting points...
1. Without a wideband, a tuner is literally blind;Originally Posted by WeathermanShawn
2. Doesn't have to be perfect... short sentences with commas and periods (when in doubt insert a comma or start a new sentence)... I have a lot of trouble reading/comprehending sentences that are more than 2 lines long or that contain more than 3 ideas; the easier a post is to read, the quicker and the response will be and the more accurate the response.
Use of point form is good for a sequence or a list.
3. Yes, start a new topic with a new thread (don't be shy), and give the thread a meaningful topic name (e.g. "Tuning Problem" verus "Can't get VE corrected")... I know, we sometimes hijack a thread...
Also, remember the written word masks all emotion... something may sound "evil" but it probably isn't, so don't take it that way... and if you wrote it add a smiley when in doubt...
The old saying: "You can only lead the horse to water, it's up to them to drink it" applies here. Some will lap it up and others will stare at it with a blank look, others with wait for you to put the water in their mouth for them. Regardless, I think it's still up the "veterans" to lead them to water because everyone was there at one point.
I always recommend reading as much about EFI as possible to help grasp the ever-changing strategies used by the OEM's. One of my fave books is still Corvette Electronic Engine Management. It's somewhat outdated now, but still covers alot of the strategies and theories currently in use including the LS1 PCM.
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