Info on New LML engines for 2011

[Tordne]

All I really say is that as far as we are aware at this point there is only one way to get an LML calibration which could then be modified. Any if that is the mechanism they are using it is in breach of the terms and conditions.

[GMPX]

ACDelco TDS Website
Terms and Conditions of UseProhibited Activities. You agree not to:

1. Reproduce, copy, modify, adapt, distribute, transmit, transfer, republish, compile or decompile, reverse engineer, distribute, transmit, display, remove or delete the GM Intellectual Property or the content and information provided by GM, its third party licensors and/or other users of ACDelco TDS;
2. Allow unauthorized disclosure or copying of any part of ACDelco TDS or any information obtained from ACDelco TDS;

Because you as the end user of EFILive currently use our software to read the ECM program from your vehicle, nobody is in breach of this service. If we were to start distributing files downloaded from TIS as the base calibration for LML's we are in breach of the above and will probably get sued. So given the ECM can't be read through the OBD-II port, how do we (or anybody for that matter) legally distribute the files for tuning purposes when the only source I know of to get them is from TIS?

In addition, as I mentioned at some other point in this thread, having our customers open up the ECM to put it in a special boot mode so the file can be read via debug pins (which you would need to solder on to) is not going to happen either, it's a ridiculous method of tuning an ECM, but this is what the Europeans have been doing for a while now with the Bosch ECM's.
http://www.cmdtec.it/prod_bootMEDC17.asp

[GMPX]

I just got my May 2011 copy of Diesel World and there is an article on the Banks Duramax Day at the front, particularly showcasing the LML.
What is interesting is the statement in there that says 'The Duramax V8 diesel is becoming increasingly significant for racing, marine and military applications and is considered to be the "hot rod" of diesel engines'. What they forgot to add at the end of that sentence is...........'until in 2011 some schmuck at GM decided to fit the most evil ECM ever conceived to control it, if only they chose Delphi as a supplier for Diesel ECM's like Mercedes Benz now do', heck, even the new Chevy Cruze diesel is using a Delphi ECM.

[8100 Power]

I just got my May 2011 copy of Diesel World and there is an article on the Banks Duramax Day at the front, particularly showcasing the LML.
What is interesting is the statement in there that says 'The Duramax V8 diesel is becoming increasingly significant for racing, marine and military applications and is considered to be the "hot rod" of diesel engines'. What they forgot to add at the end of that sentence is...........'until in 2011 some schmuck at GM decided to fit the most evil ECM ever conceived to control it, if only they chose Delphi as a supplier for Diesel ECM's like Mercedes Benz now do', heck, even the new Chevy Cruze diesel is using a Delphi ECM.

This is going to be crazy, yes I know: What about having a customer that is willing to send the ECM to you (or someone within the US) to pull these tunes from the ECM to make a base of STOCK Tunes to distrubute with EFILive, after a few months you should have all OS's covered.

[GMPX]

I remember back to the 80's/90's, the elaborate protection schemes that software companies used to try to implement to stop people copying floppy discs, they never worked for more than a month. Then came the Playstation 1 (cracked), Playstation 2 (cracked), Playstation 3......bzzzt, all good things must come to an end when the manufacturers decide they really want to stop something. It's taken 5 years for someone to be able to execute 'non SONY' code on the PS3, and now they are getting sued by SONY for doing so.
The EDC17 is the Playstation 3 of the tuning world. Your concept is sort of valid and one we thought of too, but in the end from a business perspective, there is a whole lot more out there EFILive could be working on than flogging this dead horse. I understand your persistence to get us tuning these ECM's because you own one, but from a 'business perspective' there far more tempting markets waiting to be tuned and we don't have to run around in circles and jump through hoops to support them.
IMHO GM has just put the Duramax back in the dark ages with this ECM, but they might not even be aware of that (or care), or they are simply constrained by the new emissions laws to do what has been done.

At this point in time there nothing that anyone can say or do to persuade us to change our stance on how we would be supporting the LML. I'll reiterate it once more, unless we can read the ECM via the OBD-II port, it isn't going to happen. We aren't going to be distributing stock files with our software that were not obtained by reading the ECM through the OBD-II port. Flashing the ECM with multiple vehicle models with TIS to cover all OS's and segment variations then reading them out through the CPU's debug port is not in breach of TIS regulations how? You still used TIS for the purpose of reverse engineering or copying. Reading an ECM through the diagnostic port has nothing to do with TIS.
The way EFILive (and other PC based custom tuners operate) is technically very different to any hand held type tuner out there, I think this is the point everyone is missing when they say that H&S or BullyDog can tune them. At minimum you should be thankful that those companies are at least going to be offering 'something' for sale with regards to a better tune.

Sorry, but this whole LML issue is not our fault, if it was just a carry over from the LMM then you know you would be tuning it with EFILive as we speak. This is not EFILive turning it's back on our loyal Duramax users, though I really feel it's being perceived that way.

[andrewjamesbond1]

Thanks for all the info. There is so much to computer engineering that I know nothing of, and give a round of applause to the EFI live crew for all of their accomplishments. I guess I get excited about the LML simply because it is another duramax

My next question is why does GM use bosch ecm's on some vehicles and delphi on others? Like my G8 V6 is bosch, but the G8 V8 is delphi (because it is an LS2 engine {i think}) And why did they make the switch between the LLY and LBZ? Is bosch a better ecm than delphi? less expensive? Once again, curiosity

[GMPX]

My next question is why does GM use bosch ecm's on some vehicles and delphi on others? Like my G8 V6 is bosch, but the G8 V8 is delphi (because it is an LS2 engine {i think}) And why did they make the switch between the LLY and LBZ? Is bosch a better ecm than delphi? less expensive? Once again, curiosity

Only GM could answer those questions, probably look to the accounting department for the answer.

[Nor-Cal Nick]

Subscribed...I have alot of clients asking whats the word. Great info on here, thanks for the info and explanation. Hoop things change, I really like the EFI system.

[LBZoom]

If anyone can do it, I believe the crew at EFI Live can... if it can be engineered, it can be reverse engineered, it just takes more and more time as the designs become more intricate. But I'd rather wait for EFI Live to do it than purchase another company's product. EFI Live for life!

[GMPX]

If anyone can do it, I believe the crew at EFI Live can... if it can be engineered, it can be reverse engineered

Well, to a point this is very true, however Bosch ECM's have always been locked up a little tighter than the Delphi ECM's. This time they just went one step further, it's not like we don't know what we are doing with this and that is why we are stuck. GM/Bosch just removed the ability to read the ECM via the OBD-II port, not much we can do about that, the function is GONE, probably for good on this ECM. Bosch still have a card up their sleeve to lock this ECM down totally so even opening up the ECM won't get you anywhere, maybe that will come on the 2012 model when they see LML's blow soot out the exhaust.