how do i get my car not to idle so high

[5.7ute]

Bad, B4307 has some other effects on the cylinder airmass calculation that I havent nutted out yet. I was meant to do some testing for Marcin (RedHardSupra) so we could clear it up but havent got around to getting the roadrunner back in the car & a definitive testing procedure worked out.
I wont make any assumptions as yet but your fuelling in the main areas is coming into line nicely. There are obviously a few cells that are out still but the more logs you do the better it will get.
Can you post thetune you done that log with?

[5.7ute]

that i really don't know what i'm looking at. lol i do like how your IBPW is smooth all the way across that screenshot, but i really dont understand what the numbers mean yet. what do i do about how my IBPW is all jagged & the numbers being so much different?

Nothing yet IMO. Lets get your average fuelling closer & work from there.

[WeathermanShawn]

Well Bad here is my take..

It is a function of running Closed-Loop. I do not want to get into a battle of tuning merits, but I am tuning around stoich AFR (~14.63). Unless you run a COS, when you run Open-Loop you have no Trimming functions. It great if you are drag racing just on weekends or know what you are doing.

The Injectors are staying steady because AFR is staying steady. Thats a benefit of Closed-Loop. Perhaps it is a few cells off, but Open-Loop Tuning is not easy.

I would be curious to see if your narrowbands are capable of Trimming. Otherwise, you need to keep lowering your Idle VE values until Commanded hit Actual.

Just an opinion, but that is why your posted, right?

Good luck..

[5.7ute]

In closed loop your IBPW will oscillate as the pcm switches around stoich. You would need to graph it fine to see clearly but it does occur.
IMO Bad's IBPW oscillates much worse because the idle is not stable. An unstable idle has the calculated cylinder airmass fluctuating along with RPM & Map. Add to this an inaccurate VE table throwing the mixture out & you have an engine chasing its tail trying to idle.
Basically Bad, IBPW is the amount of time the injector is told to open by the PCM. I have posted a few times on my findings in this forum, but the basics are.
The pcm calculates how much air is in the cylinder, either with the VE table or maf, depending on what mode you are in.(Also with the desired airflow values at idle) Then the pcm looks up what AFR you are commanding to see what the injected fuelmass should be. Then it looks up the IFR to calculate how long the injector needs to be open to inject that fuelmass. The injector being a mechanical device has a delay in opening & closing which must be taken into account, so the value in B3701 (referenced to voltage & manvac) is added to the calculated value. This final value is IBPW.

[WeathermanShawn]

Mick, it is more of a general observation that a great majority of tunes & Logs posted that have fueling problems, are those novice tuners attempting a non-COS Open Loop.

Ironically, 99% of the time they are commanding stoich in their VE Table. I am just trying to be a lone voice on this forum and point out that a lot of these beginners would fare better starting with Closed-Loop. They are making it harder on themselves trying to chase a 'wandering' VE Table. They do not understand how Idle along with temperature variation can make Open-Loop at times difficult. Why not avail themselves of Trims?

I think this tuner could benefit from Closed-Loop or a least a Semi-Open Loop tune..(IMO)..

Bad, which ever way you precede best of luck.

[BadLSX]

ok, i'm posting the tune i'm working with after todays logging of the AutoVE. i did change the desired airflow back to the stock 02 settings because i saw no change in the car's idle characteristics. it's pretty crazy how everything kind of falls into its own place, but is all connected at the same time. i'm assuming i should keep doing the AutoVE logging until i get it dialed in better. should i maybe lower the Main VE table some in the lower areas then to maybe help the car want to idle a little better? i really wish that i still had the stock injectors as it seems it would be a little easier to work with. when i had Doc build me a mail-order tune last year, he said it was gonna be very difficult for me to learn to tune this car, both because i'm a beginner with it & that the car being so modified now. i'm keeping my head up & trying to grasp every bit of information that i can.

[BadLSX]

Shawn, how do i go about using the Trims to my advantage? would i want to be using STFT or LTFT? would it be possible for me to learn both ways or would i probably confuse myself more than i am now? i know that everybody has an individual style of doing tuning, with no right or wrong way of doing it. at the point i'm at, i don't know any more about one way vs another way.

[WeathermanShawn]

Personally, I think if you download the AUTOVE and the CALC.VE Tutorial and read each cover-cover, you will see more similarities than differences. I have just seem so many people struggle with constructing a VE Table. Utilizing Closed-Loop is just adding another tool. It is really neither one vs the other.

It is hard to convince people..but check out the threads. Commanded AFR vs Actual is probably the single biggest problem people encounter.

My rule of thumb is that if it takes you more than two weeks to tune using one method..why not try another. If two weeks from now, closed-loop does not even work, then maybe it is time to take the car to a professional tuner.

Read the following Tutorial:http://download.efilive.com/Tutorials/PDF/Calc.VE Tuning Tutorial.pdf.

If that does not make sense, or you try for two weeks and are still lost..report back.

It is your decision. Your VE Table is much better than it was, but have you been at it for more than two weeks yet?

Good luck Bad..

[5.7ute]

Mick, it is more of a general observation that a great majority of tunes & Logs posted that have fueling problems, are those novice tuners attempting a non-COS Open Loop.

Ironically, 99% of the time they are commanding stoich in their VE Table. I am just trying to be a lone voice on this forum and point out that a lot of these beginners would fare better starting with Closed-Loop. They are making it harder on themselves trying to chase a 'wandering' VE Table. They do not understand how Idle along with temperature variation can make Open-Loop at times difficult. Why not avail themselves of Trims?

I think this tuner could benefit from Closed-Loop or a least a Semi-Open Loop tune..(IMO)..

Bad, which ever way you precede best of luck.

Shawn. I am not disagreeing with you though I am sure it reads that way. But even if the individual is going to go to the closed loop method you use the tune needs to be "close" open loop first. The reason being is if the tune is too far out that the o2 sensors may not switch properly to begin with. (I have come upon this previously)
Also depending on the cam, having trims take effect at idle will really screw things up since the overlap sends unburnt oxygen into the exhaust, giving a false lean.
Personally I tune open loop with a COS, then use STFT in most but the idle cells to keep things in check. But again this is just my preference.
Bad, your idle is reading rich according to your wideband so lower those cells to bring it into line. No matter what method you use this will be a necessity.
When it is close use the BIDI controls to find what AFR & spark timing your engine likes at idle. (commanded & actual)

[5.7ute]

Bad, did you have a look at the tune in post 71? It might be a better starting point since most of the VE table is cleaned up & wont have as much of an interpolation error..