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Thread: 3 Bar MAP sensor doesn't work with 3 Bar scaling!

  1. #1

    Default 3 Bar MAP sensor doesn't work with 3 Bar scaling!

    Finally making headway, thanks to Jesse, with the cutsom OS 3/bar application on a wild TT C5. What I am totally puzzled by is that the car has a 3 Bar MAP sensor but runs like crap with the scale set at 288. The FS reports a real high Kpa reading . When changed to 194 (2 Bar) it gets closer and finally at 94 it runs great. WTF??

    When the scale is set to 94 the MAP reads 102 KPa with the key on. What is the problem?

    Also I am disappointed with the Autotune tutorial as after 4 times going through the steps it still wouldn't run. After Jesse got involved I realized there ae things that need to be done that are not discussed. Needless to say I got a good lesson tonight!

    Howard

    www.redline-motorsports.net

    1-954-703-5560

    2006 ZO6 895/866 with APS TT
    2010 SSRS Camaro HTR-900TT (798/801)
    2011 HTR-850R Camaro
    2012 ZL1 Auto (10.33@135 MPH) Video Here!

  2. #2
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    Is the three bar sensor brand new. I had a problem with my buddies turbo'd ss. We put the supercharged buick 3.8 2 bar sensor on it and it was till the 15 time I started it till the sensor showed the kpa it needed. For instance stock idle kpa was 38 on 1 bar. The first time I used the new 2 bar it was reporting like 75 almost 80 kpa corrected. But I guess we fattened up the mixture too much and it bogged the engine, since then the sensor worked perfectly. It showed 20 kpa through the normal map pid. Put it through the 2 bar pid and it showed 40 kpa. I guess It was a fluke of some kind. Maybe that is the same problem you have. Its kind of like you have to break in the sensor by a massive fluctuation in kpa.

  3. #3
    Forum tyhee Site Admin GMPX's Avatar
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    Howard, if you scaled the MAP to 288 and it would not run and the MAP reading at keyon was nowhere near 100kPa, then it was wrong!!, rescale to suit?.
    Are you 100% certain it is a 3bar MAP?.
    The 3bar MAP I have here is #16040749
    From the GM Parts Direct Website -

    DESCRIPTION: NO STOCK LEFT ON 16040749 ORDER NEW PART #12223861
    This is the first design map sensor for 1989 turbo t/a's.
    This part number has changed to the 2nd design and will require using a new connector 15305891 when replacing the first design sensor with the new 2nd design map sensor

    If you are installing this on a vehicle other than a 1989 turbo T/A there will not be a warranty on this part.

    This is an electrical part which is not returnable per our site policies.

    This old part number will be sent until stock is exhausted. Once stock is exhausted the new part number 12223861 will be sent in its place.
    Need official EFILive help, please go here.
    For tuning support please post your questions on this forum (or other auto forums).
    Sorry if I don't respond to your PM, don't take it personal.


  4. #4

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    Ross,

    That is the correct MAP # was have......plus I have two of them! I have a question....what is the difference between SAE.MAP and GM.MAP??

    www.redline-motorsports.net

    1-954-703-5560

    2006 ZO6 895/866 with APS TT
    2010 SSRS Camaro HTR-900TT (798/801)
    2011 HTR-850R Camaro
    2012 ZL1 Auto (10.33@135 MPH) Video Here!

  5. #5
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    Howard (Redline Motorsports),

    Once you have the AutoTune working with table B0101, how are you going to fine tune the Boost VE table (A0009) so it is not so rich but still rich enough to prevent KR?

    I have a C5 TT that I am planning on doing the Custom OS and AutoVE on it so all information is important to me.

    Thanks,
    Lonnie
    2002 EB Coupe, MN6
    Xtreme TTi Twins @8psi, Dual A-pilar gauges - fuel&boost, x-pipe, Borla Straight Twin Oval from Cats on back, Hurst Short Throw, CCW 3 piece rims - 18x9.5/275-35 and 18x11.5/335-30 Pilot Sports

    Drive it like you stole it!!!!!

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Redline Motorsports
    Ross,

    That is the correct MAP # was have......plus I have two of them! I have a question....what is the difference between SAE.MAP and GM.MAP??
    What are the differences between these two pids?

    www.redline-motorsports.net

    1-954-703-5560

    2006 ZO6 895/866 with APS TT
    2010 SSRS Camaro HTR-900TT (798/801)
    2011 HTR-850R Camaro
    2012 ZL1 Auto (10.33@135 MPH) Video Here!

  7. #7
    Forum tyhee Site Admin GMPX's Avatar
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    Sorry, Howard, forgot to answer that.

    GM.MAP is the raw voltage from the MAP sensor.
    SAE.MAP is the actual manifold pressure.

    In our custom O.S's we changed the SAE.MAP PID so it extends to 255kPa (The max it can go to), this is the one you should use when tuning 2/3 bar.

    Cheers,
    Ross
    Need official EFILive help, please go here.
    For tuning support please post your questions on this forum (or other auto forums).
    Sorry if I don't respond to your PM, don't take it personal.


  8. #8
    EFILive Developer Site Admin Blacky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMPX
    GM.MAP is the raw voltage from the MAP sensor.
    Actually GM.MAP is the same as the SAE.MAP PID (kPa or inHg), except (as Ross said) it pegs at 105 kPa, while {SAE.MAP} continues up to 255kPa.

    There was another PID {GM.MAPS} that was the raw sensor voltage, but that has been removed in the latest version. It was not compatible with black-box logging. To obtain the raw MAP voltage, create a calculated PID with the following expression: RAW({GM.MAP})/51

    Regards
    Paul
    Before asking for help, please read this.

  9. #9

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    Thanks for the clarification.

    I still don't understand why this 3 Bar MAP sensor is reading valid numbers when scaled at 94. When the sensor is scaled at the 288 it is reading incorrect.

    Howard

    www.redline-motorsports.net

    1-954-703-5560

    2006 ZO6 895/866 with APS TT
    2010 SSRS Camaro HTR-900TT (798/801)
    2011 HTR-850R Camaro
    2012 ZL1 Auto (10.33@135 MPH) Video Here!

  10. #10
    Forum tyhee Site Admin GMPX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redline Motorsports
    Thanks for the clarification.

    I still don't understand why this 3 Bar MAP sensor is reading valid numbers when scaled at 94. When the sensor is scaled at the 288 it is reading incorrect.

    Howard
    You got me too Howard :?
    What was the part # of the sensor you have?.

    Cheers,
    Ross
    Need official EFILive help, please go here.
    For tuning support please post your questions on this forum (or other auto forums).
    Sorry if I don't respond to your PM, don't take it personal.


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