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Thread: Working on my idle tune

  1. #81
    R.I.P Shawn, 1956-2011 WeathermanShawn's Avatar
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    Anytime you hit the Throttle you are exiting Idle..see B0108.

    That immediately transitions you to the High-Octane Spark table. Then as your Throttle decreases back to ~0 TPS, you will go back to the Base Spark in Gear. All of the Idle Airflow Parameters are active only at Idle (TPS< 1%), so you may be experiencing either a huge swing in Spark and or Fueling. I would look at the High Octane Spark table for answers.

    On a side note, I keep B5920 enabled. B5934 still looks like it needs modifying. One thing I do not understand are your values in B4324, B4325, and B4329. That means your PCM will learn extremely high swings in Airflow..you want the opposite..keep those limits stock or your Idle Airflow will go nuts.

    Also, you need at least stock Airflow corrections for B4301 and B4302. Without them once your cooling fans kick in your car will most likely stall from the additional load. Out of curiosity has is your battery performance(voltage)?
    2002 Black Camaro Z-28 M6 Hardtop 11.0:1CR 425HP/410TQ SAE (400TQ@3500RPM)
    200cc Heads, 228/232 110+2 Cam, 1 3/4" LT's w/catts, GMMG, Koni Shocks, Hotchkis Springs, 35/21 Sways, 17" ZR1's, 3.90 Gears Roadrunner PCM LM-2 Serial Wideband
    EFILive Closed-Loop MAF/SD Hybrid Tune..


  2. #82
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    - I set it at 22 degrees as a base. It may be too high or low. However it's a good starting point. Most cams (even big ones) don't need a much timing as you think it does. This is assuming the VE, MAF and idle airflow are dialed in. I run 25.5 degrees of timing at idle with a decent size cam (26 degrees of overlap) and it will idle at 900-925 in gear. Once again use the DVT feature to help pinpoint the spark required for your vehicle. Use 2 degree increments plus or minus to start with to see how it responds.

    - Reverse Gear stalling in an Auto is usually too low airflow or spark, but can be Throttle Follower and/or Cracker. Sometimes adding as little as .15 to the In Gear airflow and 1-2 degrees of spark to that specific region of the spark table will help without affecting the D idle. As always use the scan tune (runway highlighting is your friend here) to pinpoint the exact MAP kPa, rpm and gms/cyl regions in the affected tables. The upside is you can do this type of tuning safely in your driveway, the downside is your neighbors will think you're absolutely nuts as they watch you go up and down the driveway without leaving.

    - What AFR does the WB read at idle and during the stall? I like to see a reading slightly lean reading between 14.6-15.2. Depends on the cam, but slightly leaner seems to help stabilize idle in my experience.

  3. #83
    Senior Member blsnelling's Avatar
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    You'll have to talk down to me I'm a newbie at EFI Live. What is DVT, scan tune, and runway highlighting? If you can tell me what I need to do, I'll do it and post the results.

    So far I've completed a CalcVE tune and have my VE and MAF tables dialed in. I've also made a couple passes at RAFPN and RAFIG.

    Check out this log here for my AFRs. You'll also notice I'm fighting some KR at WOT, up to almost 7 degrees.

    AFR_002.efi
    Last edited by blsnelling; November 1st, 2010 at 03:58 PM.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by blsnelling View Post
    You'll have to talk down to me I'm a newbie at EFI Live. What is DVT, scan tune, and runway highlighting? If you can tell me what I need to do, I'll do it and post the results.

    So far I've completed a CalcVE tune and have my VE and MAF tables dialed in. I've also made a couple passes at RAFPN and RAFIG.

    Check out this log here for my AFRs. You'll also notice I'm fighting some KR at WOT, up to almost 7 degrees.

    AFR_002.efi
    Sorry. Here are some quick explanations.

    DVT Controls - Bi-Directional controls on the "DVT" tab on far right tab on the scan tool (2 over from Dashboards). Click on the tab, then on the Engine Control tab. Note: The vehicle must be connected to view the PCM/ECM specific options. These allow real time control of key parameters such as spark, IAC, idle rpms, commanded AFR, etc. The changes are not permament, but will allow you to pinpoint troublesome areas by manipulating the parameters. Try it, you will like it.

    - I meant scan tool, not scan tune. sorry.

    - Runway highlighting - Probably the coolest feature of the scan tool. You can click and drag specific frames on the scan tool which in turn will highlight the exact areas in the tune tool. This eliminates guessing and shows the exact spot of certain tables in the tune file.

    > In the Tune tool click on Edit (upper left corner), scroll down to Properties. Click on the Scanner tab and select Highlight Scan Tool Selection in Tuning Tool Maps and Runway Highlighting.

    > Open a log in the Scan Tool and Tune Tool at the same time. Click and drag a small section on the scan tool. Look at the Main VE Table in the Tune tool and you will see entire columns and/or rows highlighted. The cell they connect at is the cell(s) highlighted from the scan tool. It will be grey in color compared to blue for the rest of the columns/rows. A picture is worth a thousand words in this case, but I don't know how to post screen shots.

  5. #85
    Senior Member blsnelling's Avatar
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    Now that I've got my timing tables all synced in the idle area, I've tried to go back through EVERY table and set as recommended in this thread. I'll do another RAFPN and RAFIG and see where those are.

    My Modified_021.tun
    '01 ECSB 4x4, '04 6.0L LQ4 Shortblock, 243 Heads Milled .035 11:1 Compression, Pac 1218 Springs, Yank PT3200 Stall, Comp Cam 220/224, .581/.581, 112LSA, LS7 Lifters, TBSS Intake Manifold, Edelbrock 3864 90mm T-Body, Doug Thorley LT Tri-Y ceramic headers, Flowmaster 50 SUV, LS1 e-fans, Airaid MIT, Complete valve body build up, 4.30:1 Gears, 33/12.50-17 Tires

  6. #86
    Senior Member blsnelling's Avatar
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    Shawn, could you please confirm that you have all zeros in B3608, B36909, B3610, B4338, B4339, B4352, B4605, and B5908.
    '01 ECSB 4x4, '04 6.0L LQ4 Shortblock, 243 Heads Milled .035 11:1 Compression, Pac 1218 Springs, Yank PT3200 Stall, Comp Cam 220/224, .581/.581, 112LSA, LS7 Lifters, TBSS Intake Manifold, Edelbrock 3864 90mm T-Body, Doug Thorley LT Tri-Y ceramic headers, Flowmaster 50 SUV, LS1 e-fans, Airaid MIT, Complete valve body build up, 4.30:1 Gears, 33/12.50-17 Tires

  7. #87
    Senior Member blsnelling's Avatar
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    Shawn, thanks for posting your tune. That has helped a lot. I'm curious about you having the 0 row of B4319 set to 0. Doesn't that leave your RPMs hanging a long time if you blip the throttle at a stop? I've got mine set to .01 right now. It'll come down nicely from 2000-900, set there a second, and the come on down to 650. It's kind of odd how it stays at 900 for a sec.
    '01 ECSB 4x4, '04 6.0L LQ4 Shortblock, 243 Heads Milled .035 11:1 Compression, Pac 1218 Springs, Yank PT3200 Stall, Comp Cam 220/224, .581/.581, 112LSA, LS7 Lifters, TBSS Intake Manifold, Edelbrock 3864 90mm T-Body, Doug Thorley LT Tri-Y ceramic headers, Flowmaster 50 SUV, LS1 e-fans, Airaid MIT, Complete valve body build up, 4.30:1 Gears, 33/12.50-17 Tires

  8. #88
    R.I.P Shawn, 1956-2011 WeathermanShawn's Avatar
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    One thing I have learned from this thread is how different an Auto is from a M6. Quite honestly I never 'blip' my Throttle at a stop. I assume from your driving habits and your stall, thats a common thing. I like my Rpm to fall slowly and just 'quietly' hear the cam thump away at Idle.

    I reviewed my Tune. I do have B4319 different from stock. I will try to update that on my Base Tune I have previously attached. As far as I know that should cover everything..
    2002 Black Camaro Z-28 M6 Hardtop 11.0:1CR 425HP/410TQ SAE (400TQ@3500RPM)
    200cc Heads, 228/232 110+2 Cam, 1 3/4" LT's w/catts, GMMG, Koni Shocks, Hotchkis Springs, 35/21 Sways, 17" ZR1's, 3.90 Gears Roadrunner PCM LM-2 Serial Wideband
    EFILive Closed-Loop MAF/SD Hybrid Tune..


  9. #89
    Senior Member blsnelling's Avatar
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    Actually, I rarely blip the throttle. I've just been doing it a lot testing my tune.

    Right now I'm looking to make the RPMs settle slower at startup. I'm trying to decide what tables to try. What about B3628, B4304, B4344? I see I'm at 0 in B4304 at 80 and above. I'd like to see it hit 1200-1500 and settle relatively slowly when ever I start it, warm or cold.

    +1 on the auto differences. 99% of what I'v fought here would likely have never been experienced with a manual.
    '01 ECSB 4x4, '04 6.0L LQ4 Shortblock, 243 Heads Milled .035 11:1 Compression, Pac 1218 Springs, Yank PT3200 Stall, Comp Cam 220/224, .581/.581, 112LSA, LS7 Lifters, TBSS Intake Manifold, Edelbrock 3864 90mm T-Body, Doug Thorley LT Tri-Y ceramic headers, Flowmaster 50 SUV, LS1 e-fans, Airaid MIT, Complete valve body build up, 4.30:1 Gears, 33/12.50-17 Tires

  10. #90
    R.I.P Shawn, 1956-2011 WeathermanShawn's Avatar
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    You are delving into areas I have rarely tested..

    But B3628 sounds like an additional Fuel Modifier..not Air. I might stay away from that one.

    I have never experimented with B4304 or B4344. As long as you can successfully juggle it in your mind, try it out.

    If I understand B4511 correctly, all the Start-Up Airflow Parameters transition out after 4.5 seconds. So if you change any of the Start-Up parameters, make sure you log it and verify that they decay the way you want. You are probably on the right track with B4344.

    Let me know if it works. That would be an interesting modification..
    2002 Black Camaro Z-28 M6 Hardtop 11.0:1CR 425HP/410TQ SAE (400TQ@3500RPM)
    200cc Heads, 228/232 110+2 Cam, 1 3/4" LT's w/catts, GMMG, Koni Shocks, Hotchkis Springs, 35/21 Sways, 17" ZR1's, 3.90 Gears Roadrunner PCM LM-2 Serial Wideband
    EFILive Closed-Loop MAF/SD Hybrid Tune..


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