EFI Live T43 Shift Time tune strategy

[mowton]

As I use both of the top 2 tuning tools , Wondering what the programming strategy is for the EFI Live T43 tuning of A6 Shift times. In the "other" tool, you get several layered timing adjustments as well as the ability to modify the various Normal/Performance values and Down shifts. EFILive seems to only give you a base value for 2009 and earlier and in all cases only a single table to adjust shift times? Are the other shift times (Performance A/B, Downshifts etc) "calculated" (hardcoded) based on the single table? If so, does any one know what the interelationships are between the table and the "hidden" parameter to offer better understanding into the values used in the single table.

Thank you and look forward to your responses.

[mowton]

34 views ....no replies :(

[TBMSport]

Good luck getting an answer. Either no one knows or no one is sharing. Simply because I took the plunge and had my own two trucks converted to A6 (6L80 and 90 using 3 different model year OS's between them, I have the advantage of tweaking this and that to monitor a difference, if any, that changes make. My conclusion....only a ZF knows what the hell these calibrations actually do and how they work with one another. I've spoken with GM calibrators, tuners, and other alleged experts and everyone simply holds one or two pieces to the puzzle. The calculations and algorithms that these new CAN Bus systems has is truly immeasurable. I'm talking measurements and calculations to the .00001+ level. So to bring what we traditionally are used to in terms of 'tuning' up to these levels would require a a significant mathematical background AND extensive understanding of how an entire powertrain system works.

The reason I love EFILive is that they give us raw access to these tables, rather than "compressed" tuning of say HPT. The reason I hate EFILive is because only a handful of people on this earth understand how to use these tables and they are not accessible or interested in our petty performance issues. You have to understand that most of the tables that we have access to via EFILive are not necessarily because the programmers build performance cars and determined that this is what we need to make our vehicles perform better, but rather because they are computer programmers who are responding to the outcry of the tuners who use the software and claim that is needed.

That all said, my experience in cross matching engine/trans OS, model years and vehicle platforms has shown me that some parameters have greater significance depending on the combination of components and vehicle platform. More applicable to your question, there are no simple guidelines or explanations of how the TCM tables that we have access to interacts with any other given table. You will have to do the trial and error thing like the rest of us....or at least specify your question and objectives and hope that someone out there has done it already with great success.

[gmh308]

34 views ....no replies :(

Whats the point of the question? Does the "other" tool give the same window into the ECM that EFILive does?

Cheerz

[mowton]

The question is based on one tool providing more tables (functions/control) for the A6 Shift timing and I was wondering if EFILive "bakes in" the control of the other parameters like Performance mode and Down shifting timings. If so, what are they so I can understand how setting the one table in EFILive effects the full operational capabilities of the TCM/Tranny.

As far as do they provide the same tables, the answer is no, but it isn't like one gives you access to MAF and VE while the other only VE.

Ed M

[gmh308]

The question is based on one tool providing more tables (functions/control) for the A6 Shift timing and I was wondering if EFILive "bakes in" the control of the other parameters like Performance mode and Down shifting timings. If so, what are they so I can understand how setting the one table in EFILive effects the full operational capabilities of the TCM/Tranny.

As far as do they provide the same tables, the answer is no, but it isn't like one gives you access to MAF and VE while the other only VE.

Ed M

Apart from Virtual VE in the ECM which does "bake in" conversion to/from coefficients/VVE surface, would guess its WYSIWYG in the T43.

[TBMSport]

Apart from Virtual VE in the ECM which does "bake in" conversion to/from coefficients/VVE surface, would guess its WYSIWYG in the T43.

Precisely. As I've been told and since confirmed, get your ECM tuned perfectly bc the T43 makes split second decisions on what the ECM is or about to do.

[mowton]

I am confused with your repsonses as it doesn't tell me what I asked nor seem to be relative? I understand things like TPS%, Torque, RPM etc will "assist" the TCM in its calculations and controil. But that still doesn't help in understanding how the EFILive TCM file, when flashed, programs the TCM relative to say Closed Throttle Down Shift or Performance mode 1-2 upshift timing. That is my question and what I am seeking.......

Ed M

[TBMSport]

Ahh...I THINK I understand what you're asking. No one table is a central hub or reference from a calculation. The TCM looks at several tables in an (relative) instance to constantly double check its decision based upon the request given. Exact what are all the tables, what order does the program reference them, and what weight/priority is given to each table...I have NO clue. Again...I think only ZF knows this. Is the TP at the correct WOT percentage value, are the RPMs and Speed at the appropriate table values, has the TCM learned a new shift adaptation based on clutch wear, let alone what the air flow values in the ECM are indicating. I can tell you that if any of those values are off, the trans will hesitate.

I personally am still trying to figure out what Pattern A, B, C mean and how they are referenced. Not to mention what Cruise, Trailer, Warm Up, etc do.

[turbo_bu]

mowton,

Do you know if the other tool happens to have the ability to show what the adaptive cells are doing? I have played with the LS1 PCM and tried to out think what it's doing by watching and logging the trans data, but only kinda got it figured out. Some of the things that I wished I could see were how the torque channel was calculated (it appears that this is what had a significant impact on the shifts) and what the TAP cells were. Thus you could start off with the adaptive cells at zero and watch them move based on the tune in the PCM.

For what it's worth, similar questions have been raised regarding the Allison TCM's as well and the ability to try and "figure them out". So far, not too many people seem to know ... or are sharing ...