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Thread: Still Working on a "Smokeless" tune....

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    Senior Member 2006Cummins's Avatar
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    Default Still Working on a "Smokeless" tune....

    I have been working on a good smokeless tune for a while now, and have made some progress, but am still not happy with the results. On my latest tune I have reduced the commanded mm3 in the lower rpm's, reduced the main duration table by 10%, reduced the pilot table by 10%, eliminated post injection, reduced pressure by 3%, set timing at 50%, and regulated the boost limiter out to 17psig. At this point I still have what I call the "pigpen effect" (like the kid with the cloud of dust following him on charley brown). This is even during moderate acceleration, or high rpm and low load.

    I can make the truck not smoke to some degree, but it cant get out of it's own way until it builds a fair amount of boost - then it goes ok, but still smokes some. Or, I can make it decent to drive, but then I get the pigpen effect. I have gone as far as reducing main duration 35%, pilot duration 15%, pressure 10%, reduced commanded mm3 quit a bit in the low/mid rpm's, and adjusted the boost limiter to make it driveable. I have tried running more pressure and less duration, less pressure and more duration, less pressure and duration, more and less timing, more and less pilot duration, tweaking the boost limiter, etc. Admittedly, the boost limiter is the only limiter I am using. The reason for this is that I have found some of the limiters to have little/no effect, and it is easier to keep track of what just the boost limiter is doing, as opposed to try to figure out what each limiter is trying to do at what point.

    What I would like to do is to use the boost limiter, or whatever, to limit acceleration smoke, but still be able to "get some" right when I floor it.

    Thinking back, when running just the bully dog tuner (with injectors) - on any setting, I would have some acceleration smoke. With the quadzilla pressure box installed it would really clean up the acceleration smoke - to almost clean on moderate accel, and the truck would be more responsive. This makes me wonder exactly what the pressure box was doing. I know that pressure boxes obviously add pressure - which I have tried, but also act as a "boost builder" and keep from setting an over boost code. If it is adding more pressure (fuel quantity), and allowing a little more fuel earlier (more fuel), then I would think that it would smoke more - not less. The box must scale the amount of pressure to boost in a way that I am not seeing how to do using efilive.

    Anyone have any thoughts on this?

    Mike
    2019 Ram 6.7L 68RFE
    2003 VW Jetta TDI

  2. #2
    Junior Member CIDRAUGHN's Avatar
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    In my experience, I was running an mp8 with a smarty before with big injectors and a large turbo. By dialing up the mp8, i could completely clear out the pigpen effect you are talking about, but the pressure was up there pretty high. I was watching it off of an in cab gauge. What I was seeing was that 3000-4000 psi additionally in the acceleration range would take care of almost everything. It was way more responsive, and much cleaner. I could make it smoke if I wanted it too, but of course it was aggressive at best tuning. I have been getting close to achieving what you are talking about, and I just happened to think about that when I read your post. May be worth a try, but I am not a huge fan of 22k+ psi just for light acceleration. Keep me up to date with what you try.
    06 Dodge RCLB 2500 5.9L Hamilton, Maxxspool, Wicked Diesels, Bullseye Power, Industrial Injection, South Bend Clutch, Amsoil, K&N, ARP,EFILive, T&C Diesel, ATS, GDP...

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    Lifetime Member Dmaxink's Avatar
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    ^^x2, pressure can majorly help on this... sometimes 50% timing is a little much in part throttle areas.. 2 examples of this could also be associated to too much pilot (too much overall timing)... With say 50% BTDC, stock pilot tables could be coming in much too early.
    -Kory

    I'm out of ideas? Nah trick... When in doubt, 0xFFFF it out!

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    Lifetime Member 2007 5.9's Avatar
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    I have found smoke to be majorly tied to incorrect timing...in conjunction with too much duration can make it worse.

    I like to start with timing first then adjust uS.
    Les Szmidt
    2007 5.9 Dodge Ram
    2014 Ram 3500 Aisin tuning Emissions Equipped
    EFI Live Cummins BETA Tester
    Silver Bullet Tuning
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    Junior Member KDubya's Avatar
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    Did you turn Post injection off? Zero out all post injection events and see how it does. You should be able to keep pressure and main duration up and run pretty clean with post turned off. The most I've ever done with Pilot is lightly smooth it.

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    Junior Member triton's Avatar
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    I think this is more for top end smoke but, I recently learned that playing with the "injection shutoff vs. rpm " will help to reduce smoke.
    '07 5.9 Mega 3500
    11.7 @ 118 / 8200lbs

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    Lifetime Member DoghouseDiesel's Avatar
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    Pilot has a HUGE impact on your smoke output and also throttle response.

    1207 HP / 1612 TQ

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    Lifetime Member GMPX's Avatar
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    It's nice to see a discussion about 'reducing' smoke
    I no longer monitor the forum, please either post your question or create a support ticket.

  9. #9
    Senior Member 2006Cummins's Avatar
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    In my experience, I was running an mp8 with a smarty before with big injectors and a large turbo. By dialing up the mp8, i could completely clear out the pigpen effect you are talking about, but the pressure was up there pretty high. I was watching it off of an in cab gauge. What I was seeing was that 3000-4000 psi additionally in the acceleration range would take care of almost everything. It was way more responsive, and much cleaner. I could make it smoke if I wanted it too, but of course it was aggressive at best tuning. I have been getting close to achieving what you are talking about, and I just happened to think about that when I read your post. May be worth a try, but I am not a huge fan of 22k+ psi just for light acceleration. Keep me up to date with what you try.
    ^^x2, pressure can majorly help on this...
    I'll go a little farther with pressure to see if that helps.

    ^^x2, pressure can majorly help on this... sometimes 50% timing is a little much in part throttle areas.. 2 examples of this could also be associated to too much pilot (too much overall timing)... With say 50% BTDC, stock pilot tables could be coming in much too early.
    I have found smoke to be majorly tied to incorrect timing...in conjunction with too much duration can make it worse.
    Pilot has a HUGE impact on your smoke output and also throttle response.
    Roger that. I'll try 40% down low to see if that helps.

    I need some help with pilot. I have reduced the pilot duration table, but only smoothed the pilot timing table. I'm really not sure how much to reduce the pilot duration and timing. Since I have reduced the pilot duration 10%, should I reduce the pilot timing table roughly the same amount? Wish we had a pilot timing calculator.

    Did you turn Post injection off? Zero out all post injection events and see how it does. You should be able to keep pressure and main duration up and run pretty clean with post turned off. The most I've ever done with Pilot is lightly smooth it.
    All post injection tables 0'ed.

    I think this is more for top end smoke but, I recently learned that playing with the "injection shutoff vs. rpm " will help to reduce smoke.
    I'm flat at 42* across the board....

    It's nice to see a discussion about 'reducing' smoke
    Smoke was fun about 12 years ago when I was first getting into diesel performance. Now, it just annoys me.
    2019 Ram 6.7L 68RFE
    2003 VW Jetta TDI

  10. #10
    Junior Member triton's Avatar
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    you can reduce that 42*, 1* at a time and you will notice less smoke. Obviously just one way of attacking smoke, it does work though
    '07 5.9 Mega 3500
    11.7 @ 118 / 8200lbs

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