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Thread: Need a basic lesson on idle tune w/cam..

  1. #1

    Default Need a basic lesson on idle tune w/cam..

    We'll I finally got myself into trying the AutoTune feature of EFI Live. Followed the tutorial and everything is working great! Much in part to the new Autronic WB that we just bought for the dyno. Anyway.........

    I am trying to tune a 98' C5 A4 car that we installed a mild cam ( 222/226) and LT headers. Intake tract is stock. This is my first A4 tune that I have done as it seems like 95% of the cars I see are sticks. I thought this would be a good opportunity to apply the autotuning as well as learn the ins and outs of working an A4.

    Tonight I did a few cycles on the dyno for part throttle and idle VE tuning. The problem I am having is getting the car to start and idle smoothly. I raised the values in the 4307 desired air flow and also raised the desired idle up 150 rpms from stock. This helped but I was wondering what kind of range the values should be before I am to far off. Once the cars idle stabilized it idles decent but if I give it some throttle and release it will bounce for a bit before stabilizing. Sometimes to the point of stalling. Will the desired IAC park setting being increased keep the throttle blade cracked open more when the throttle is closed?

    I have read as much as I can on this site but could use a basic overview of the methods to get the idle setup. From what I have read some of the steps got a bit over my head so I am trying to get a grip from the start.

    The auto makes it a bit involved and I'm sure there are some unique steps that must be needed. I don't feel that cam is that big at all so all the error will be in the operator!

    When should the IAC effective area be touched if at all? Can some of the idle hunting be controled with some timing advance? Typically some spark can help makeup for the overlap at low speed.... I did notice that the motor was idling with 12-14 degrees of timing.

    Any tips would be appreciated.

    Howard

    www.redline-motorsports.net

    1-954-703-5560

    2006 ZO6 895/866 with APS TT
    2010 SSRS Camaro HTR-900TT (798/801)
    2011 HTR-850R Camaro
    2012 ZL1 Auto (10.33@135 MPH) Video Here!

  2. #2
    Unknown Zone TAQuickness's Avatar
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    Unfortunatey, idle is a complex process and there aren't many simple tips. Set up a map for the b3407 in gear and in park and use RAFIG & RAFPN to dial in 4307. Do not mess with the IACEA or idle air flow park. Start up friction will help you with initial cold start surging. Idle spark tables can help you with start up flare an stablize idle spark.

    I've found recently that incorrect base timing at idle makes idle problems more noticeable. My car likes 35-40* at idle.

  3. #3

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    When setting up the map for idle; I assume to use the calc.RAFIG as the data and coolant must be the other factor. Is that all you log? Can I assume that this pid is an EFI pid that is precalculated.....based on what?

    Both pids should be mapped independantly. Correct? One is "in gear" and the other is "out of gear".

    What about the IAC limits? I thought with the ETC that you can set the amount the blade is cracked upon startup?

    Thanks

    www.redline-motorsports.net

    1-954-703-5560

    2006 ZO6 895/866 with APS TT
    2010 SSRS Camaro HTR-900TT (798/801)
    2011 HTR-850R Camaro
    2012 ZL1 Auto (10.33@135 MPH) Video Here!

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    Unknown Zone TAQuickness's Avatar
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    The RAFIG is the sum of both the short and long term idle trims. RAFIG for in gear, RAFPN for park/neutral. In the map you want RAFxx as the data parameter, ECT for rows, and InGear or PN for column. In order for the RAFxx pid's to work, you will need to select the supporting idle trim parameters as well.

    As for IAC, you should target 65-100 steps for hot idle. I find closer to 100 works better for bigger cams. As for ETC, I don't know. Maybe an ETC guy will chime in

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    I've thought about drilling my TB hole bigger, but it just idles so well with a 238/240 @ .050 112 LSA cam, IAC counts in the 180's

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    Quote Originally Posted by TAQuickness
    Unfortunatey, idle is a complex process and there aren't many simple tips. Set up a map for the b3407 in gear and in park and use RAFIG & RAFPN to dial in 4307. Do not mess with the IACEA or idle air flow park. Start up friction will help you with initial cold start surging. Idle spark tables can help you with start up flare an stablize idle spark.

    I've found recently that incorrect base timing at idle makes idle problems more noticeable. My car likes 35-40* at idle.
    Great thread..

    TAQuickness, if the values in B4349 have been changed because of a 90 mm TB should (set at .0320 currently) this be changed back stock and the RAF tables recalculated?

    Will the start up friction help with very erratic timing on a cold start? The car i'm tuning timing was going crazy on a cold start (set at 28 degrees) so I backed it off with live controls to 20 but I didn't notice much of a difference until the car warmed up more then it stablized better than it has. (I adjusted the spark over/under corrections by 10% as well)
    1992 Turbo LSX Notchback Mustang 275 radial car - under construction
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    Quote Originally Posted by TAQuickness
    In the map you want RAFxx as the data parameter, ECT for rows, and InGear or PN for column.
    TAQuickness, when you said InGear or PN for column..what are you meaning by that? Is it the desired airflow??
    1992 Turbo LSX Notchback Mustang 275 radial car - under construction
    2008 Sierra 2500HD Duramax

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    Lifetime Member Doc's Avatar
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    Sorry I'm confused too. I have every idle pid selected and I am just not comprehending. I can' t fin RAFIG or RAFIPN on the map col. Could you please try to explain for the mentally challenged. Thank you so much.

    2000 Silverado Full Size 4x4: Forged 6.2, H/C F1R Procharger
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    Unknown Zone TAQuickness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris81
    TAQuickness, when you said InGear or PN for column..what are you meaning by that? Is it the desired airflow??
    See the attached image of B4307. It's purely a matter of matching the row and column headings so the paste with labels functions work.


    Quote Originally Posted by Doc
    Sorry I'm confused too. I have every idle pid selected and I am just not comprehending. I can' t fin RAFIG or RAFIPN on the map col. Could you please try to explain for the mentally challenged. Thank you so much.
    in your map properties, select the data tab, then choose RAFIG or RAFPN as your data parameter.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  10. #10
    Lifetime Member Doc's Avatar
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    Thank you TAQuickness. This is one of the primary reasons I went with EFI Live- this community is so helpful and understanding.

    2000 Silverado Full Size 4x4: Forged 6.2, H/C F1R Procharger
    98A4 Z28: 02 PCM H/C Forged 347, 9" Moser 3.73
    V1 V2 99+up RR COS #5 OLSD Dual Stg N20
    www.efialchemy.com
    www.greatamericancarwar.com

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