Trouble communicating

[Blacky]

Ok, the line in bold tells me that the suspend command is not working

49:47.094: Send suspend command: $F1,$56,$08,$B1
49:47.094: Start writing frame
49:47.094: Send: $F1,$56,$08,$B1
49:47.095: Finished writing frame
49:47.095: Wait 10 ms after writing, before reading...
49:47.105: Start reading frame
49:47.108: Aldl frame header byte: $F1
49:47.108: Aldl frame length byte: $56
49:47.108: Recv: $F1,$56,$08,$B1
49:47.108: Finished reading frame
49:47.108: MAX232 echo: $F1,$56,$08,$B1
49:47.108: Wait 10 ms after writing, before reading...
49:47.118: Start reading frame
49:47.219: Aldl frame header byte: $10
49:47.219: Aldl frame length byte: $59
49:47.219: Recv: $10,$59,$0A,$43,$00,$00,$4A
49:47.219: Finished reading frame

After sending the suspend command (which sent and echoed correctly) we are still seeing chatter frames.

So the suspend/resume commands are probably not being sent to the correct module, try changing them back to what they were before:
i.e.
$F4,$56,$08,$AE
and
$F4,$56,$09,$AD

It may be worth trying other module ID's, such as $F0, and $F5 as those values work on other vehicles.
Basically what we're trying to do is figure out which module is the "Bus Master". Sending the suspend/resume commands to that module (using its correct modules ID) should stop the chatter and allow the ALDL data logging to procede in peace and quiet.

Note: When changing the suspend/resume commands, don't just change the first byte. You should click on the [...] button and change it that way, then the last byte (the checksum) will be automatically updated with the correct value.

Regards
Paul

[vilant]

Hi Paul,
Alright, it took me a while, but I finally finished creating a new vehicle file. I've been fiddling around with timing, heartbeats, and changing the modules suspend/resume commands and I'm close. I truly believe it's just a matter of getting the timing right. Out of all the combinations, the best is when I had heartbeat set to $F0,$56,$F1,$C9 and can't remember the Timing (tried so many combos) the only error I got was expecting frame header byte. Of course my battery is almost dead now, so I'm recharging it. Don't know if low battery effects anything. So the question is where can I find the correct timing, I know T4 is ECM specific. Do you where I could find that information?

[Blacky]

The T4 timing (and all timing settings) are part of EFILive's implementation of the ALDL protocol. They are not officially defined or documented per ECM or even for the ALDL protocol as a whole.
The timings are really just a set of configuration values that can be "tuned" to allow a non-realtime system (i.e. Windows) to try and behave as closely as possible to a real-time system.

The ALDL protocol was designed to be used with dedicated (hand-held) scan tools which can and do handle their communications with sub millisecond accuracy. Windows being a pre-emptive multitasking system simply cannot do that. So I exposed the internal timers that the software uses in case any situation arose that required those timings to be "tuned". Its really just a case of trial and error.

I would be surprised if T4 needed to be anything other than 0. (I would only try 0 or 10, any other values should not make any difference).

While attempting to data log, the "expecting frame header byte" error will occur if, after sending a request for data, a reply is not received within X milliseconds, where X is defined as:
T2*number of bytes in the reply + T3. So if you make T2=0 and T3>500ms then you should not see that error because the software will always wait at least 500ms for a reply.


Regards
Paul

[vilant]

Hi Paul, thanks for the info. I set T4 - 0. I've been trying a bunch of combinations. The one with the fewest errors is having heartbeat-$F0,$56,$F1,$C9 ,suspend/resume to $F1,$56,$08/$F1,$56,$09 ,Max232 checked but no DTR or RTS and varying T3, T5, and T6 times. The only error is Com timeout: Expecting frame header byte. I turned on the Serial I/O and w/ T3-300, T5-50, T6-150 (in the macro screen the errors were more or less the same no matter what the times were). Here's what I got;
35:51.050: Start macro: Engine data, table $00: DATADTC
35:51.054: Synchronising ALDL communications...
35:51.054: Waiting for heartbeat: $F0,$56,$F1,$C9
35:51.054: Waiting for Aldl bus silence of at least 150ms...
35:51.447: Start reading frame
35:51.466: Aldl frame header byte: $10
35:51.466: Aldl frame length byte: $59
35:51.466: Recv: $10,$59,$0A,$43,$00,$00,$4A
35:51.466: Finished reading frame
35:51.466: Frame: 0 = $10,$59,$0A,$43,$00,$00,$4A
35:51.466: Start reading frame
35:51.498: Aldl frame header byte: $40
35:51.498: Aldl frame length byte: $55
35:51.498: Recv: $40,$55,$6B
35:51.498: Finished reading frame
35:51.498: Frame: 1 = $40,$55,$6B
35:51.498: Start reading frame
35:51.498: Aldl frame header byte: $41
35:51.498: Aldl frame length byte: $61
35:51.514: Recv: $41,$61,$00,$20,$00,$43,$44,$01,$00,$00,$00,$7A,$0 0,$3C,$00
35:51.514: Finished reading frame
35:51.514: Frame: 2 = $41,$61,$00,$20,$00,$43,$44,$01,$00,$00,$00,$7A,$0 0,$3C,$00
35:51.514: Start reading frame
35:51.658: Aldl frame header byte: $10
35:51.658: Aldl frame length byte: $59
35:51.674: Recv: $10,$59,$0A,$43,$00,$00,$4A
35:51.674: Finished reading frame
35:51.674: Frame: 3 = $10,$59,$0A,$43,$00,$00,$4A
35:51.674: Start reading frame
35:51.690: Aldl frame header byte: $40
35:51.690: Aldl frame length byte: $55
35:51.690: Recv: $40,$55,$6B
35:51.690: Finished reading frame
35:51.690: Frame: 4 = $40,$55,$6B
35:51.690: Start reading frame
35:51.690: Aldl frame header byte: $41
35:51.690: Aldl frame length byte: $61
35:51.706: Recv: $41,$61,$00,$20,$00,$43,$44,$01,$00,$00,$00,$7A,$0 0,$3C,$00
35:51.706: Finished reading frame
35:51.706: Frame: 5 = $41,$61,$00,$20,$00,$43,$44,$01,$00,$00,$00,$7A,$0 0,$3C,$00
35:51.706: Start reading frame
35:51.834: Aldl frame header byte: $F0
35:51.850: Aldl frame length byte: $56
35:51.850: Recv: $F0,$56,$F1,$C9
35:51.850: Finished reading frame
35:51.850: Frame: 6 = $F0,$56,$F1,$C9
35:51.850: Found heartbeat: $F0,$56,$F1,$C9 - ALDL synchronised
35:51.850: Send suspend command: $F1,$56,$08,$B1
35:51.850: Start writing frame
35:51.850: Send: $F1,$56,$08,$B1
35:51.850: Finished writing frame
35:51.850: Wait 50 ms after writing, before reading...
35:51.900: Start reading frame
35:51.900: Aldl frame header byte: $F1
35:51.900: Aldl frame length byte: $56
35:51.900: Recv: $F1,$56,$08,$B1
35:51.900: Finished reading frame
35:51.900: MAX232 echo: $F1,$56,$08,$B1
35:51.900: Wait 50 ms after writing, before reading...
35:51.950: Start reading frame
35:52.259: Com timeout: Expecting frame header byte
35:52.472: Start writing frame
35:52.472: Send: $F4,$57,$01,$01,$B3
35:52.473: Finished writing frame
35:52.473: Wait 50 ms after writing, before reading...
35:52.523: Start reading frame
35:52.523: Aldl frame header byte: $F4
35:52.523: Aldl frame length byte: $57
35:52.523: Recv: $F4,$57,$01,$01,$B3
35:52.523: Finished reading frame
35:52.523: MAX232 echo: $F4,$57,$01,$01,$B3
35:52.523: Wait 50 ms after writing, before reading...
35:52.573: Start reading frame
35:52.573: Aldl frame header byte: $F4
35:52.573: Aldl frame length byte: $95
35:52.573: Recv: $F4,$95,$01,$20,$F9,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$12,$20,$2 0,$57,$00,$28,$00,$04,$10,$00,$00,$00,$00,$FF,$43, $EF,$13,$75,$F1,$1E,$28,$66,$66,$80,$80,$00,$00,$0 0,$80,$80,$83,$00,$96,$FF,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00, $00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$0 3,$74,$00,$00,$2D
35:52.573: Finished reading frame
35:52.627: Synchronising ALDL communications...
35:52.627: Waiting for heartbeat: $F0,$56,$F1,$C9
35:52.627: Waiting for Aldl bus silence of at least 150ms...
35:52.773: Start reading frame
35:53.085: Com timeout: Expecting frame header byte
35:53.104: No heartbeat found - ALDL not synchronised yet
35:53.109: Synchronising ALDL communications...
35:53.109: Waiting for heartbeat: $F0,$56,$F1,$C9
35:53.109: Waiting for Aldl bus silence of at least 150ms...
35:53.257: Start reading frame
35:53.569: Com timeout: Expecting frame header byte
35:53.587: No heartbeat found - ALDL not synchronised yet
35:53.695: Synchronising ALDL communications...
35:53.695: Waiting for heartbeat: $F0,$56,$F1,$C9
35:53.695: Waiting for Aldl bus silence of at least 150ms...
35:53.850: Start reading frame
35:54.162: Com timeout: Expecting frame header byte
35:54.181: No heartbeat found - ALDL not synchronised yet
35:54.188: Stop macro: Engine data, table $00: DATADTC

What do you think? Am I close? Everything seems fine (to me at least, lol) until line 35:52.259 where the first Expecting frame header byte pops up. Does the info give you any insight to what I should set timing to? Also, I saw in the Device Manager Properties of the ALDL cable, latency timing and other advanced options. Should these be set to default or should I adjust these too?
Screen shot of advanced options

[vilant]

Forgot to mention I had T3 set to 500 and 600 with the same result, I just didn't do it with the Serial I/O on. I'll keep tinkering, let me know if you see anything that helps in the information above.

[Blacky]

The good news is it looks like the bus silence command (using module ID $F1) is working.

From that trace I am pretty sure that after sending the bus silence command, it is echoed back by the cable, but no reply is sent from the vehicle. However, the software is still trying to read the reply from the vehicle which never arrives and so the software thinks that it has not yet successfully silenced the bus. So it keeps trying to synchronize (i.e. search for the heartbeat frame) even though the bus really has gone silent - hence the "Com timeout: Expecting frame header byte" errors.

So you should uncheck the "Reply" checkbox after the suspend and resume commands to tell the software not to expect a reply from the vehicle after sending those commands.

I would like to see you configure it without a heartbeat frame - just delete all the data in the heartbeat frame and try again.
See my post #29 for the reason.

Regards
Paul

[Blacky]

Properties of the ALDL cable, latency timing and other advanced options. Should these be set to default or should I adjust these too?
Screen shot of advanced options

You don't need to change anything in device manager. Once So long as the USB driver is isntalled and working (which it is), the EFILive software can (and does) adjust those settings to what it needs.
Regards
Paul

[vilant]

SUCCESS!!!! Finally working, I think, lol. Unticked the reply on suspend/resume, but still got errors with no heartbeat. So, I put the $F0,$56,$F1,$C9 heartbeat back in, no reply, T3-300, T5-50, and T6-150 and the code started streaming. Switched to the dashboard and started the car. RPM, battery voltage, O2 sensors, seemed to be real time values. RPM went up and other values moved as I gave it gas. I went back into the Macro after I turned off the car and noticed a few errors mixed in with the code (I didn't notice anything wrong w/ the dash though, when it probably happened). Here's the code from the Macro. Do you think I still need to adjust any T-timing or should I just leave it be (maybe I should datalog first to see)?
P.S. There was no interface detected, but there was chatter, while the dash was working and the code was streaming. Is this a problem?
46:58.262: Updating vehicle information...
46:58.377: Opening COM2 8228,8,N,1
47:14.735: Updating vehicle information...
47:14.851: Opening COM2 8228,8,N,1
47:21.374: Check vehicle interface...
47:21.381: Waiting for Aldl bus silence of at least 150ms...
47:22.556: Requesting Max232 interface to acknowlege: $FF,$55,$AC...
47:22.607: Error: Reply frame checksum failure
47:22.620: No response from Max232
47:22.620: Retrying Max232 detection...

47:22.620: Waiting for Aldl bus silence of at least 150ms...
47:25.598: Requesting Max232 interface to acknowlege: $FF,$55,$AC...
47:25.649: Max232 echo was incorrect:" $10,$59,$0A,$41,$00,$00,$4C
47:25.674: No response from Max232
47:25.674: Retrying Max232 detection...

47:25.674: Waiting for Aldl bus silence of at least 150ms...
47:25.988: Requesting Max232 interface to acknowlege: $FF,$59,$0A,$41,$00,$00,$5D...
47:26.039: Error: Reply frame checksum failure
47:26.064: No response from Max232
47:26.064: Retrying Max232 detection...

47:26.064: Interface cannot be detected

47:26.085: Scanning for heartbeat and chatter frames...
47:26.085: Waiting for Aldl bus silence of at least 150ms...
47:28.483: Heartbeat frame:
47:28.483: 47:28.451: $40,$55,$6B
47:28.483: Heartbeat frame is followed by 32ms of silence
47:28.483: Advisable value for T6 is 16ms

47:28.483: Chatter frame(s):
47:28.483: 47:28.483: $41,$61,$00,$20,$00,$41,$41,$01,$00,$00,$00,$7A,$0 0,$38,$09

47:41.876: Start macro: Engine data, table $00: DATADTC
47:41.880: Synchronising ALDL communications...
47:41.880: Waiting for heartbeat: $F0,$56,$F1,$C9
47:41.880: Waiting for Aldl bus silence of at least 150ms...
47:42.376: Send: $F4,$57,$01,$01,$B3
47:42.477: Recv: $F4,$95,$01,$20,$F9,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$12,$20,$2 0,$57,$00,$28,$00,$00,$10,$00,$00,$00,$00,$FF,$41, $F0,$13,$74,$F2,$1E,$25,$66,$66,$80,$80,$00,$00,$0 0,$80,$80,$83,$00,$96,$FF,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00, $00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$0 3,$A6,$00,$00,$03
47:42.496: Send: $F4,$57,$01,$01,$B3
47:42.597: Recv: $F4,$95,$01,$20,$F9,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$12,$20,$2 0,$57,$00,$28,$00,$00,$10,$00,$00,$00,$00,$FF,$41, $F0,$13,$74,$F2,$1E,$25,$66,$66,$80,$80,$00,$00,$0 0,$80,$80,$83,$00,$96,$FF,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00, $00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$0 3,$A6,$00,$00,$03
47:42.605: Send: $F4,$57,$01,$01,$B3
47:42.709: Recv: $F4,$95,$01,$20,$F9,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$12,$20,$2 0,$57,$00,$28,$00,$00,$10,$00,$00,$00,$00,$FF,$41, $F0,$13,$74,$F2,$1E,$25,$66,$66,$80,$80,$00,$00,$0 0,$80,$80,$83,$00,$96,$FF,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00, $00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$0 3,$A6,$00,$00,$03
47:42.716: Send: $F4,$57,$01,$01,$B3
47:42.820: Recv: $F4,$95,$01,$20,$F9,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$12,$20,$2 0,$57,$00,$28,$00,$00,$10,$00,$00,$00,$00,$FF,$41, $F0,$13,$74,$F2,$1E,$25,$66,$66,$80,$80,$00,$00,$0 0,$80,$80,$83,$00,$96,$FF,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00, $00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$0 3,$A6,$00,$00,$03
47:42.828: Send: $F4,$57,$01,$01,$B3
47:42.932: Recv: $F4,$95,$01,$20,$F9,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$12,$20,$2 0,$57,$00,$28,$00,$00,$10,$00,$00,$00,$00,$FF,$41, $F0,$13,$74,$F2,$1E,$25,$66,$66,$80,$80,$00,$00,$0 0,$80,$80,$83,$00,$96,$FF,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00, $00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$0 3,$A6,$00,$00,$03
47:42.941: Send: $F4,$57,$01,$01,$B3
47:43.044: Recv: $F4,$95,$01,$20,$F9,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$12,$20,$2 0,$57,$00,$28,$00,$00,$10,$00,$00,$00,$00,$FF,$41, $F0,$13,$74,$F2,$1E,$25,$66,$66,$80,$80,$00,$00,$0 0,$80,$80,$83,$00,$96,$FF,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00, $00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$0 3,$A6,$00,$00,$03
47:43.147: Send: $F4,$57,$01,$01,$B3
This code kept streaming for a while, I'll skip to the error in the middle
48:46.127: Send: $F4,$57,$01,$01,$B3
48:46.228: Recv: $F4,$95,$01,$20,$F9,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$12,$20,$2 0,$57,$00,$28,$00,$00,$10,$00,$00,$00,$00,$FF,$41, $EB,$13,$5B,$F2,$1E,$25,$66,$66,$80,$80,$00,$00,$0 0,$80,$80,$83,$00,$96,$FF,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00, $00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$0 3,$A6,$00,$00,$21
48:46.230: Send: $F4,$57,$01,$01,$B3
48:46.331: Error: Reply frame checksum failure
48:46.332: Send: $F4,$57,$01,$01,$B3
48:46.382: Error: Max232 echo: $40,$55,$6B did not match command: $F4,$57,$01,$01,$B3
48:46.737: Com timeout: Data frame truncated: $41,$F4,$57,$01,$01,$B3,$50,$40,$C0,$80,$00,$7A,$0 0,$38,$09,$10,$59,$02,$00,$00,$00,$95,$40,$55,$6B, $41,$61,$00,$20,$00,$41,$41,$01,$00,$00,$1C,$7A,$0 0,$38,$ED,$10,$59,$02,$00,$00,$00,$95,$00,$00,$00, $00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$0 0,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00, $00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$0 0,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00, $00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$0 0,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00, $00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$0 0,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00, $00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00
48:46.737: Send: $F4,$57,$01,$01,$B3
48:46.788: Error: Max232 echo: $40,$55,$6B did not match command: $F4,$57,$01,$01,$B3
48:46.839: Error: Reply frame checksum failure
48:46.840: Resuming normal ALDL communications...
48:46.892: Stop macro: Engine data, table $00: DATADTCThis could of been when I started the car

49:04.795: Start macro: Engine data, table $00: DATADTC
49:04.794: Synchronising ALDL communications...
49:04.794: Waiting for heartbeat: $F0,$56,$F1,$C9
49:04.794: Waiting for Aldl bus silence of at least 150ms...
49:05.403: Send: $F4,$57,$01,$01,$B3
49:05.504: Recv: $F4,$95,$01,$20,$F9,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$6A,$20,$2 0,$57,$85,$E8,$10,$00,$90,$00,$00,$00,$90,$FF,$43, $38,$13,$90,$F2,$1E,$24,$DD,$D4,$78,$79,$05,$01,$0 1,$80,$80,$83,$00,$5F,$43,$02,$BA,$00,$28,$38,$00, $12,$00,$01,$62,$00,$00,$01,$81,$01,$BE,$01,$C2,$0 1,$B9,$00,$00,$51
49:05.511: Send: $F4,$57,$01,$01,$B3
49:05.611: Recv: $F4,$95,$01,$20,$F9,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$6A,$20,$2 0,$57,$85,$E8,$14,$00,$90,$00,$00,$00,$90,$FF,$43, $3A,$13,$90,$F2,$1E,$24,$DE,$D4,$78,$79,$05,$01,$0 1,$80,$80,$83,$00,$5E,$43,$02,$BB,$00,$29,$38,$00, $12,$00,$01,$62,$00,$00,$01,$81,$01,$B8,$01,$BA,$0 1,$AC,$00,$00,$64
49:05.612: Send: $F4,$57,$01,$01,$B3
49:05.713: Recv: $F4,$95,$01,$20,$F9,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$6A,$20,$2 0,$57,$85,$E8,$10,$04,$90,$00,$00,$00,$90,$FF,$43, $39,$13,$90,$F2,$1E,$24,$DD,$D4,$78,$79,$05,$01,$0 1,$80,$80,$83,$00,$5E,$43,$02,$BC,$00,$28,$38,$00, $13,$00,$01,$62,$00,$00,$01,$81,$01,$BC,$01,$C0,$0 1,$B2,$00,$00,$55
49:05.714: Send: $F4,$57,$01,$01,$B3
Then the code continued normally again for a while
9:21.504: Send: $F4,$57,$01,$01,$B3
49:21.605: Error: Reply frame checksum failure
49:21.606: Send: $F4,$57,$01,$01,$B3
49:21.707: Recv: $F4,$95,$01,$20,$F9,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$6A,$20,$2 0,$57,$85,$E8,$10,$80,$90,$00,$00,$00,$90,$FF,$46, $3D,$13,$90,$F2,$1E,$24,$E0,$D6,$78,$79,$05,$01,$0 1,$80,$80,$83,$00,$5D,$43,$02,$E8,$00,$22,$35,$00, $22,$00,$01,$62,$00,$00,$01,$81,$01,$B6,$01,$B8,$0 1,$A6,$00,$00,$B6
49:21.712: Send: $F4,$57,$01,$01,$B3

Again this was one error would pop up every 50 lines of code or so, then it continued streaming normally a while
Here's a screen shot

I believe screen shot 2 happened when I started the car. So what do you think? Everything good?

[vilant]

Tried datalogging today and it worked. Was also able to see the dashboard working in sync w/ the vehicle RPM, MPH, etc.. I guess that there's no interface detected doesn't matter. Thanks Paul, for all of your help. I never would've been able to get it working without you.

[Blacky]

The suspend/resume commands are not being sent. I'll try and explain what I think is happening and why.

During normal vehicle operation (i.e. when you're not data logging) the various modules that are connected to the ALDL bus* send and receive "chatter" frames. These frames contain status data that the modules need to share between themselves to keep the vehicle running properly.
* "bus" is just the name for the physical wires that connect all the modules.

The timing of the chatter messages are set up so that they don't collide with each other - i.e. only one message is transmitted on the bus at any given time.

When EFILive start data logging, it needs to send requests onto the bus and receive replies from the bus. All the timings we have been messing around with are really only to ensure that EFILive transmits its message when no other module is transmitting. If two modules transmit at the same time then their messages corrupt each other and neither message is delivered successfully.

The "frame checksum failure" message is the inevitable/eventual collision between a normal chatter message on the bus and an EFILive request/response for data message.

So you still need to configure the suspend/resume commands to actually work and to cause the other modules on the bus to stop sending their chatter messages.
That will require you to experiment with the module ID for the suspend/resume commands. Try all the values from $F0 thru $F5 for the module ID.

Regards
Paul