Page 11 of 14 FirstFirst ... 910111213 ... LastLast
Results 101 to 110 of 131

Thread: 600 rpm slip limit solved!!!! OS 25941752

  1. #101

  2. #102
    Lifetime Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    387

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by vortecfcar View Post
    Tcc ramp rate by torque needs adjustment. Go higher than 800
    Does anyone else think this table (D5072) even works? At least on the 5speeds. I tried going both ways with no difference set all the way to zero or 1 and max it all out and this changes nothing. Logically the controller should adjust to match the ramp rate in D5072 so there would be no need to adjust it from stock, unless you want an annoying jerk when it locks up. But with a triple disk I guess your at the limits of the control logic, whats weird is you can watch DC and it will ramp quickly up to about 30-40% for a couple seconds with no decrease in in slip speed. Then all of the sudden it DC jumps all the way up and it locks hard.

    Messing with the max and min DC tables you can drop the maximum to a certain point about 30% or something like that and you will get a few normal lockups, then eventually it will set a code and start halfway lockup and relocking. Moving the max duty cycle up just slightly it goes back to normal hard lockup that's really annoying. So theres definitely no linear correlation between duty cycle and tcc clutch pressure.

    So is there any alternate strategy to attack this? Im assuming this will be the last revision of the TCM, but it seems like there maybe could be a workaround of trick?

  3. #103
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    38

    Default

    Believe new table will help in preventing TCC from trying to lock. Useful in keeping TCC from overheating. Believe that after enough slip, slip is enabled.

    Just started trying new ideas but seems that really strong TCC lock after 600 rpm slip is going to be difficult to program.

  4. #104
    Lifetime Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    332

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by beav View Post
    The "slip" that everyone is referring to is the 625 rpm minimum difference between engine speed and tranny input shaft speed that must be achieved before the T/C can lock. It appeared that no matter what you did to your tune, until you achieved this "slip" (~625 rpm) you would not be able to lock. It wasn't until the gracious OP and others that he acknowledged broke into the low-level code and found the info needed to override (or change) this slip limit.

    Soon, we will be able to make that value reasonably whatever we want it to be. Hope that makes sense and if I have stated this incorrectly, someone feel free to correct me.



    You have it backwards. The slip limit is a delta between input and turbine speed, yes. But not as an enable. It's a disable feature that when the slip threshold is above 600 RPM it inhibits TCC apply. This is to prevent excessive wear to the lockup clutch friction material and eventual TCC failure. Since most people switch to a triple disc TC when they add hp this feature isn't as necessary. Raising the slip delta to 1000 RPM or even higher allows the TCM to apply the TCC with no regard for the actual clutch friction material or heat generated by applying it with a large delta rpm.

  5. #105
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    123

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Brayden View Post
    You have it backwards. The slip limit is a delta between input and turbine speed, yes. But not as an enable. It's a disable feature that when the slip threshold is above 600 RPM it inhibits TCC apply. This is to prevent excessive wear to the lockup clutch friction material and eventual TCC failure. Since most people switch to a triple disc TC when they add hp this feature isn't as necessary. Raising the slip delta to 1000 RPM or even higher allows the TCM to apply the TCC with no regard for the actual clutch friction material or heat generated by applying it with a large delta rpm.
    You are correct, I did not state it correctly. Wish I would have re-read it! Thanks for pointing it out. If anyone could explain it best, that would be you. Thanks for the clarification that the TCM actually "disables" the TCC's ability to lock above 600 rpm of T/C slip.

    With that, the whole premise behind this new EFILive feature is that you can now keep the TCC from inhibiting lockup at and above 600 rpm of slip, but at say 800 rpm of slip instead. It is like dumping a manual clutch at 800 rpm (or higher) of engine speed. But, as Brayden explains above, the parameter is there for your protection. I would not mod these tables unless you have the obvious upgrades.
    2006 Ford F250 Super Duty, 2008 Cummins 6.7, Allison 1000 5spd
    2011 Ford F250 Super Duty, 6.7L Scorpion

  6. #106
    Lifetime Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    387

    Default

    Is there enough tables available (Min/Max Duty Cycle and TCC Ramp Rate) to successfully make a suncoast triple disk converter to lock up as smooth as a stock converter or at least somewhat reasonably? The control logic makes no sense if you lower the max DC; the TCC will command on and it instantly ramps up to the max value and delta RPM does not change at all until about 2 seconds later then magically delta RPM goes to zero. If the max DC is below about 65% or so, for the majority of TPS values <75%TPS, It will lockup at part throttle about like stock. But If the converter is locked and you push the throttle without unlocking once the turbo starts to spool it will start slipping. So if you raise the Max DC at higher throttle positions it will make it lockup hard again even at low throttle positions.

    Is the controller just at its limits since there is so much apply area with a triple disk? or is there a way to trick it at least with the tables we have available in the AL5? You would think that you could just leave the tables alone and maybe lower the MIN DC and the controller could adapt, and no adjustment would be required with the ramp rate since you want it to lock like stock, but I guess DC and lockup pressure have some weird non linear correlation.

  7. #107
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    33

    Default

    this is awesome. My buddy is out testing our tuning on his truck; moving the slip RPM up incrementally to get a feel for it. He's gone from feeling locked in 4th (stock) to the top of third (800rpm) and now all the way through third (1500rpm). No reports of drive problems or odd shifting. It's a 2wd LMM with a Big Dipper Stage IV. Next we plan on logging some runs

    Wally
    2008 LMM

  8. #108
    Senior Member thunder550's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    178

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by vortecfcar View Post
    Tcc ramp rate by torque needs adjustment. Go higher than 800
    Is this 800 kpa? I have D5233 set to Disable, D5231 and D5232 are at stock values, and set the D5072 as shown in the screenshot below (values are in kpa). I haven't gotten consistent lockup in 2nd gear yet. Been nervous to increase the values over 250 kpa.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	screenshot.jpg 
Views:	237 
Size:	56.8 KB 
ID:	17476   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	screenshot1.jpg 
Views:	210 
Size:	42.1 KB 
ID:	17477  

  9. #109
    Senior Member thunder550's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    178

    Default

    Just realized that has to be a kpa value, the table only goes to 146ish psi. I just tried setting the 400 and 600 ft-lb column to 900 kpa from 50-600 RPM, still not getting lockup until the 2-3 shift. Slip RPM right after the 1-2 shift is only around 330 RPM, and calculated torque is 487 ft-lb.

    I am getting a weird thing where it looks like the TCC duty cycle increases, goes back to zero, and increases slowly again during 2nd gear. This happened on both WOT pulls I just tried. Any ideas what's going on?

    Diff ratio is 3.42 and tire dia is smaller than stock, 30.75", not sure if that would throw anything off.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	screenshot 2.jpg 
Views:	201 
Size:	223.2 KB 
ID:	17478  
    Last edited by thunder550; September 14th, 2014 at 09:51 AM.

  10. #110
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    68

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thunder550 View Post
    Is this 800 kpa? I have D5233 set to Disable, D5231 and D5232 are at stock values, and set the D5072 as shown in the screenshot below (values are in kpa). I haven't gotten consistent lockup in 2nd gear yet. Been nervous to increase the values over 250 kpa.
    I cant seem to find those tables to adjust on my lbz tcm (a40?) i have updated to the newest versions of all efilive and cant find the slip limit

Page 11 of 14 FirstFirst ... 910111213 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. 600 rpm slip limit
    By killerbee in forum Allison 5 & 6 Speed
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: December 2nd, 2012, 07:00 PM
  2. Fuel and RPM limit question...
    By LBZoom in forum Duramax 06 LLY / 06+ LBZ & LMM
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: June 2nd, 2010, 11:56 AM
  3. speed/RPM limit cancel!!
    By A.O.A in forum General (Petrol, Gas, Ethanol)
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: May 27th, 2009, 05:44 AM
  4. RPM limit
    By IdahoRob in forum Duramax 06 LLY / 06+ LBZ & LMM
    Replies: 91
    Last Post: November 7th, 2008, 05:41 PM
  5. High RPM power loss solved
    By PSWired in forum 4speed RWD/FWD Transmission Tuning (incl T42)
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: October 16th, 2005, 12:43 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •