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Thread: Sanity check, please...

  1. #121
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    E10 is regular pump gas that has an Ethanol content whereas E00 has no Ethanol additive?

  2. #122
    Lifetime Member Rich Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joecar View Post
    E00 to E15: the PCM can handle it using trims (i.e. you will see large positive LTFTs).
    Yeah, and because of those positive LFTFs, that's why I want to do the tune now using E10 fuel specs. I want to try enabling the LTFTs during normal driving but don't want the positive fuel trims to muck up WOT. I'm thinking keeping the LTFTs as close to zero as I can, but a bit on the minus side might be what I have to do. Yes/no? Sometimes the flipping between positive and negative logic in this stuff confuses the hell out of me.

    I believe my wideband (serial LC-1) is using EQ, so I guess I'm OK with that. No PE offsets or multipliers need to be monkeyed with?

    I'm still waiting for my road to dry out. Maybe tomorrow, if we don't get any more rain, I can run out for a bit.

    I think I've still got just under a half tank of E00 93 in the gas tank, so I will likely drive the car around to use that up and then fill up with E10 93.

    So since the wideband and B3647 are using EQ, will I really expect to see much change in the maps for B0101 and A0009? Do I need to wait through a couple fillups of E10 before resuming logging?

    CorvetteFlorida.com

    2002 Corvette Z06
    427 RHS block built by LME
    STS rear mounted twin turbos
    It nearly died on the operating table, but I'm bringing her back.

  3. #123
    Lifetime Member Rich Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddnspider View Post
    E10 is regular pump gas that has an Ethanol content whereas E00 has no Ethanol additive?
    That is the way I understand it. E10 means 10 percent ethanol content. E00 means zero percent ethanol content.

    I guess I could use shorthand such as E10-93 to indicate 10 percent ethanol, 93 octane.

    CorvetteFlorida.com

    2002 Corvette Z06
    427 RHS block built by LME
    STS rear mounted twin turbos
    It nearly died on the operating table, but I'm bringing her back.

  4. #124
    Lifetime Member Rich Z's Avatar
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    Update:

    Been raining most of the time since I last posted, but I did get to take the car out and rill the gas tank with E10 93 octane. Started re-calibrating the VE table.

    I pushed it into boost a bit and got a hiccup again. Not sure what caused it this time, as the airbridge was still securely in place when I got back.

    While doing some digging around, I found out that the way my wastegates are hooked up to the intake manifold is not recommended by Tial nor a couple of other places I talked to. Push come to shove, I am completely redoing the wastegates and plumbing. Going to drill and tap holes for fittings in the compressor housings and run directly from each turbo to it's respective wastegate. I'm also going to 14 lb springs to see if perhaps I can get boost over the 8 psi or so that has been a cap to me. According to the engine builder, it should handle at least 25psi, so I'm still being somewhat conservative (relatively speaking) about this. So anyway, waiting for the parts to come in before I take the turbos apart to start on this.

    While poking around in my tune to see if I could find anything else that might be related to that above mentioned hiccup, I noticed something that has me a bit confused. I thought maybe a misfire condition had maybe caused the hiccup, but I didn't get any error codes indicating that. Well, could someone please take a look at tables C5621, C5622, C5623, C5626, and C5627 for me (at the beginning of this thread) and tell me what you think? Has misfire detection been completely disabled in my tune? I compared these tables with a stock C5 Z06 tune, and they are definitely different.

    Maybe there was a good reason that this was done, but I guess I'm uncomfortable thinking that I might have misfires going undetected.

    CorvetteFlorida.com

    2002 Corvette Z06
    427 RHS block built by LME
    STS rear mounted twin turbos
    It nearly died on the operating table, but I'm bringing her back.

  5. #125
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    Alot of people disable misfire detection on larger c.i. motors with cams and valvetrain to avoid falsely tripping misfire detections.

    As for your wastegate referencing, how is it referenced? If you reference it to the compressor housings, you will lose boost due to any pressure drop in the intercooler. I've got a sticky over in the FI section on ls1tech about how to reference BOV's and WG's you may want to take a peek at. Its really old, but I believe I cover Tial.

  6. #126
    Lifetime Member Rich Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddnspider View Post
    Alot of people disable misfire detection on larger c.i. motors with cams and valvetrain to avoid falsely tripping misfire detections.

    As for your wastegate referencing, how is it referenced? If you reference it to the compressor housings, you will lose boost due to any pressure drop in the intercooler. I've got a sticky over in the FI section on ls1tech about how to reference BOV's and WG's you may want to take a peek at. Its really old, but I believe I cover Tial.
    But should ALL misfires be hidden? It looks to me that they are all disabled. Suppose there really are misfires taking place? Wouldn't I want to know about them?

    The wastegates are now referenced to the back of the intake manifold. Single line that comes to a "T" and then branches to both wastegates. I can see benefits to both sides of this. On one hand I can see it would be nice to be referencing the actual boost as it exists where you want it to be, which is in the intake manifold. But on the other hand having the turbo's boost monitored and controlled AT the turbos just seems more elegant and logical to me. I specifically chose 14 lb springs because I presumed there will be a pressure loss at the engine, and that is to compensate for it. Plus with the single line coming from the intake manifold, there is only a single point of failure that could disable BOTH wastegates.

    I'll look over that thread you mentioned. Thanks for letting me know about it. BTW, I have a thread over there trying to figure out exactly what turbos I have on my car. I feel it is prudent to make sure what I was told they are and are capable of is really factual.

    CorvetteFlorida.com

    2002 Corvette Z06
    427 RHS block built by LME
    STS rear mounted twin turbos
    It nearly died on the operating table, but I'm bringing her back.

  7. #127
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    I referenced my wastegate right before the throttle body. After the TB, when you let off, the 'gates will close and spike the pressure in the charge pipes. It might sound cooler coming out of your BOV but isn't doing anything else any good.

  8. #128
    Lifetime Member Rich Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ACCLR8N View Post
    I referenced my wastegate right before the throttle body. After the TB, when you let off, the 'gates will close and spike the pressure in the charge pipes. It might sound cooler coming out of your BOV but isn't doing anything else any good.
    Ah, yes. I've been trying to think of why hooking the wastegates up to the intake manifold could be bad for anything, and you provided the key to my understanding. The blow off valve is activated when there is a pressure differential between the the outside of the throttle body plate and the inside of that plate. However, with the wastegates referenced from the intake manifold, when the throttle body plate closes suddenly, such as between shifts, the wastegates will have a sharp transition between boost and vacuum that will slam the wastegate valves shut abruptly, and likely forcefully. When the wastegates are referenced to the outside of the throttle body plate, the control is merely between high boost and no boost, as the blow off valve relieves pressure.

    I'm thinking that abrupt and forceful transition between full boost and full vacuum might be what Tial is talking about in relation to possibly damaging the wastegate.

    I feel better now about my decision to change the wastegate plumbing. I wasn't really sure it was necessary as I couldn't come up with a scenario that seemed like it could hurt anything. Guess I just didn't think it through long enough.

    Thanks.

    CorvetteFlorida.com

    2002 Corvette Z06
    427 RHS block built by LME
    STS rear mounted twin turbos
    It nearly died on the operating table, but I'm bringing her back.

  9. #129
    Lifetime Member Rich Z's Avatar
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    Was able to take the car out today (actually Monday). Yesterday I put the opened fittings back onto the top plate of the wastegates so they would be open to atmosphere. I wanted to see if that would have any effect on that bothersome hiccup I've been getting while in boost. And long story short, I didn't have any problems this time out. Boost still tops out at around 150 kPa and then drops about 7 kPa before the trees whipping by so fast makes me nervous and I let off of the gas pedal.

    So it looks like the hiccup MIGHT have been caused by my closing off that fitting. Still not 100 percent sure yet, because only one instance of a problem not showing up doesn't mean it isn't still lurking around waiting to pounce again. But I'm hopeful.....

    Oh yeah, I copied the misfire tables from a stock Z06 into my tune, and I didn't get any yelping from the DIC about any misfires. I guess one of these days I need to set up a pid and dashfile to actually monitor for them.

    I've uploaded the latest tune and log file if anyone is interested.
    Attached Files Attached Files

    CorvetteFlorida.com

    2002 Corvette Z06
    427 RHS block built by LME
    STS rear mounted twin turbos
    It nearly died on the operating table, but I'm bringing her back.

  10. #130
    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Z View Post
    ...

    So it looks like the hiccup MIGHT have been caused by my closing off that fitting. Still not 100 percent sure yet, because only one instance of a problem not showing up doesn't mean it isn't still lurking around waiting to pounce again. But I'm hopeful.....

    Oh yeah, I copied the misfire tables from a stock Z06 into my tune, and I didn't get any yelping from the DIC about any misfires. I guess one of these days I need to set up a pid and dashfile to actually monitor for them.

    ...
    Interesting.

    Good deal

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