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Thread: Manual vs Auto

  1. #1
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    Default Manual vs Auto

    I'm still trying to learn all of this tuning 'stuff' and am reading documentation and poking around in EFI Live but I do have a question that I haven't been able to find an answer for yet.

    When looking at the 12212156 OS, I have 2 different files- One for an Automatic and one for a Manual trans.
    Other than where it states 'Manual' or 'Automatic' I can't see anything in the config itself that seems to be different?
    All the parameters seem to still be based on an Automatic (shift points, pressures, converter lock-up etc) and I see nothing that appears to be Manual trans specific?
    Even when I look under 'Speedometer' most of the VSS related parameters state that they are not applicable to Manual trans.
    Am I over thinking this? Is there anything I need for a Manual trans?
    I plan on running a VSS and the brake/clutch switches but I just can't seem to find where this all comes into play.

    Sorry if this is a really stupid question-
    Thanks!
    Elm

  2. #2
    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
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    The differences are in the non-calibration portions of the Transmission segment and Transmission Diagnostics segment (i.e. the invisible portions).

    To run the manual trans you need the manual trans file (so it recognizes the CPP switch).

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by joecar View Post
    The differences are in the non-calibration portions of the Transmission segment and Transmission Diagnostics segment (i.e. the invisible portions).

    To run the manual trans you need the manual trans file (so it recognizes the CPP switch).
    Ahh.. OK. At least I'm not going crazy ;-)
    So is the VSS information strictly limited to the 'Speedometer' section?
    I guess I only need to provide the information for the fields that aren't ignored by the Manual transmission selection?
    Thanks!
    Elm

  4. #4
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    OK- Getting back to this project 2 years later.. I hate it when life gets in the way ;-)

    Anyway, getting back to trying to figure out how to actually swap segments in a 2002 L31 Express Van tune to replace the auto trans with a manual.
    I looked in the EFI Live doc and in the forums but I'm still not understanding what's involved here-
    Looking in EFI Live, I can export a 'Calibration List' and 'Calibration Data'. Which is required to swap segments for the transmission?
    When I try to export the 'Calibration Data' I get a .csv file with everything- Is 'swapping segments' just replacing specific pieces from a manual trans .csv file to the 2002 Express van .csv file?
    How do I know what the entire transmission segment consists of?
    Sorry if this is really a dumb question but it's been 2 years since I've played with this and I've never attempted to swap segments before.
    Thank you for your time!
    Elm

  5. #5
    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
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    In tunetool:
    - open your working/main/base tune file;
    - open as alternate the segment donor file;
    - go Edit->Copy Entire Segment->Transmission Calibration;
    - go Edit->Copy Entire Segment->Transmission Diagnostics;
    - go File->Save As and save with a new filename.

    When swapping to a manual trans, it might be better to start with a manual trans file and to copy over all the other tables (which of course is timing intensive, but can be done).

  6. #6
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    You should swap systems too....
    "All that is needed for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing..."

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by joecar View Post
    In tunetool:
    - open your working/main/base tune file;
    - open as alternate the segment donor file;
    - go Edit->Copy Entire Segment->Transmission Calibration;
    - go Edit->Copy Entire Segment->Transmission Diagnostics;
    - go File->Save As and save with a new filename.

    When swapping to a manual trans, it might be better to start with a manual trans file and to copy over all the other tables (which of course is timing intensive, but can be done).
    Wow, that was almost too simple ;-) I can't understand why I didn't see that before?

    Can you clarify your last statement regarding starting with a manual trans file and copy everything else over? What would be the advantage of doing that? My project most closely resembles a 2002 L31 Express Van configuration with the manual trans being the only significant variation. It appears the only manual trans files using the same OS have LS motors vs a 'traditional' SBC.
    Why would swapping everything else vs just the trans segment(s) be a better option? Are there other parameters I could take advantage of? I'm open to any suggestions that will make this a better tune, even if it takes a bit more effort to get there.
    Thank you for your time!
    Elm

  8. #8
    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
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    The manual trans file comes with other tables set up for manual trans/clutch... for example, the Engine Calibration's idle P/N and IG tables are different between manual trans and auto trans files; there are other visible and invisible differences.

    But first try a segment swap (also do the System segment as was suggested above) and see how it goes.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by joecar View Post
    The manual trans file comes with other tables set up for manual trans/clutch... for example, the Engine Calibration's idle P/N and IG tables are different between manual trans and auto trans files; there are other visible and invisible differences.

    But first try a segment swap (also do the System segment as was suggested above) and see how it goes.
    Thank you for clarifying.
    I will try the Trans/System segment swap for now and go from there-
    I'll report back with my results (or any additional questions).
    Thank you!
    Elm

  10. #10
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    One more related (and perhaps dumb?) question:
    My 5-speed has a neutral switch-
    Would it help or do anything if I connected this switch to the 411 PCM?
    The automatics use it but I don't see any provision for one in the manual wiring diagrams?
    Seems it would be helpful if you're coasting down from high speed with the trans in neutral to prevent stalling?
    Perhaps I should wire it in series with the CPP switch (I would need to use a relay to convert the signal from NC to NO) so that when either the clutch is depressed or the trans is in neutral, the connection would be open?
    Thoughts?
    Thanks!
    Elm

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