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Thread: Any idea why this OEM table is so strange?

  1. #11
    Forum tyhee Site Admin GMPX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoneNomad View Post
    Thanks...

    But I see the same number of rows (23) and columns (23) in both tables.
    That is the problem, EFILive is expecting that table to be 23 x 23 for that OS, in the Van it is not but it is still plotting it as though it was. I cannot think of any sane reason GM would do that.

    Quote Originally Posted by GoneNomad View Post
    However, I am using the northern hemisphere standard for counting
    (sorry couldn't resist; don't hold it against me. New Zealand is where I always wanted to go when fleeing the Zombie Apocalypse)
    In New Zealand they only just got electricity so I'm ok with that comment , (I'm in Australia, so it's like the US v Canada thing going on down here).


  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMPX View Post
    That is the problem, EFILive is expecting that table to be 23 x 23 for that OS, in the Van it is not but it is still plotting it as though it was. I cannot think of any sane reason GM would do that.
    Thanks... OK, so that means you must have a way of looking at the internal structure to determine the 17 x 22 table size.

    This makes me wonder how tuners who've done tunes for LMM vans have gotten around this problem.
    The answer is could be that 2010 LMM vans are so very rare (GM only built them for three weeks in Sept. 2009), and so rarely modified, that maybe none of them have tuned one yet.

    What still has me concerned is the possibility of other tables that could have errors that aren't so obvious. So if there's a way you have to "audit" the tables in the file for table size errors, which when rendered as 23 x 23 might not be so obvious, that would be helpful.

    I guess you've already seen that this table (and others like it) is 20 x 20:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	LMM Van B1168.PNG 
Views:	164 
Size:	68.2 KB 
ID:	16453
    and I hope it's supposed to be that (different) 20x20 size...
    Last edited by GoneNomad; March 1st, 2014 at 07:34 PM.

  3. #13
    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
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    If a table has this kind of error (different number of row x cols than expected) then you will see the Z-shaped 3D surface same as you pasted in post #1.

  4. #14
    Forum tyhee Site Admin GMPX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoneNomad View Post
    What still has me concerned is the possibility of other tables that could have errors that aren't so obvious. So if there's a way you have to "audit" the tables in the file for table size errors, which when rendered as 23 x 23 might not be so obvious, that would be helpful.
    I'm not really sure what you are asking for, think about it this way, there has been no changes for the LMM calibrations for maybe three or so years, this is the first instance of an odd table size in a rare vehicle, it's not like we should hit panic stations (which is sort of what you are suggesting).

    So the other table you have is a 20 x 20, true, are you asking is EVERY table supposed to be 23 x 23 because some others were?


  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMPX View Post
    So the other table you have is a 20 x 20, true, are you asking is EVERY table supposed to be 23 x 23 because some others were?
    No, but when I asked that question, I had no way to know that 20x20 table was not another misinterpretation of a 23x23 table.
    joecar's subsequent answer indicates otherwise, that any table size mismatch would have a tell-tale "Z shaped" map.
    Since I don't know who "joecar" is, do you concur?

    Quote Originally Posted by GMPX View Post
    I'm not really sure what you are asking for, think about it this way, there has been no changes for the LMM calibrations for maybe three or so years, this is the first instance of an odd table size in a rare vehicle, it's not like we should hit panic stations (which is sort of what you are suggesting).
    Well, I never said or implied anything about hitting panic stations. This is not a code red, priority one deal. I am aware that it's a low volume vehicle, since I pointed that out too.

    So to clarify my non-panicking situation, I am hopeful there will be an eventual solution to this and any other table size mismatches that are discovered, maybe in a month or two? Is that reasonable? ...since you did say:
    Quote Originally Posted by GMPX View Post
    ... for now, just don't touch that table until we figure out a solution to this problem.
    ...My assumption is that if I flashed even the unmodified OEM tune back to the ECM, a table size mismatch like B1169 might cause a problem, because the unmodified tune has 23x23 when the ECM is expecting 17x22. I am assuming it doesn't automatically put 23x23 back into 17x22 just the way it was on the ECM originally. Is that right or wrong?

    As far as:
    Quote Originally Posted by GoneNomad
    "What still has me concerned is the possibility of other tables that could have errors that aren't so obvious."
    ...it still does. If I had to depend on whatever you did to determine that B1169 is 17x22 rather than the expected 23x23, then someone on your end (or using your method, at least) would have to do it. But joecar already answered how to check for other instances of those table size errors: by looking for the tell-tale "Z shaped" map. That being the case, I can do the audit myself. As long as I can find any tables affected this way, finding them shouldn't be a problem.

    But checking for any other table size mismatches still doesn't solve the problem with B1169 (and any others that happen to be like it).
    ___________________________________________

    Thanks for your help.

    I am fully aware that we DMax van owners have to make do with what we get, and I am thankful that EFILive supports DMax vans at all.
    Last edited by GoneNomad; March 1st, 2014 at 07:35 PM.

  6. #16
    Lifetime Member killerbee's Avatar
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    In addition to the rarity of the LMM van, it is also a high altitude table. Most tuners have not even looked at it, those that do rarely want to spend time modifying a table that will rarely be utilized for most customers. Not too many race strips at 10,000 ft.
    Michael, Systems Engineer 04.5 D-max LLY, Phoenix, Arizona Email
    Custom Tuning Services
    DURAMAX/CUMMINS ECM's TCM's for sale, all years, 20% wholesale discount available
    EFILive's first VGT "Software Wastegate Tune"

  7. #17
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    OK, it's now been six weeks since the nature of this problem was identified.

    I hope I am not coming across as hitting the panic button to ask if there is a solution forthcoming?

  8. #18
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    OK, two months later...

    If you have a way of looking at the internal structure of the hex file to determine the table size is 17 x 22 instead of the expected 23 x 23, can you also see the values in each cell of that table?

    If so, wouldn't it be possible to manually enter those values into the first 17 x 22, and then leave the cells outside that range blank?

    Or are the row & column header values in the different sized table also different? (If not, never mind). If so, is there no way to change them?

  9. #19
    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
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    If that table has a Z shape to it, then do not edit it.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by joecar View Post
    If that table has a Z shape to it, then do not edit it.
    Thanks. I understood that the first time it was mentioned.
    Still hoping there will eventually be a way to correct this problem instead of just avoiding it.

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