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Thread: 2014 Corvette Stingray Stock Tune VS ProCharger's Tune (comparison)

  1. #11
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    So most commercial shops are simply dialing in the MAF curve to get proper fueling?
    2002 Z06
    Vengeance Racing Stage 5, H/C/I/3.90 diff, 575 hp
    2016 Chevy SS M6 (daily driver)
    Roto-fab Intake

  2. #12
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    Most "same day" Gen IV dyno tunes are MAF only. On a full build project you may (or may not) get a VVE and MAF tune - depends on the builder. The issue is the time involved (i.e. the cost) in a high quality VVE tune.

  3. #13
    Lifetime Member swingtan's Avatar
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    Most "USA" Tunes..... I'm not sure of the ratio here in n Aus. but a significant proportion are SD. My thought on this is that shops work on a "base" VVE for mods that are generally the same, then fine tune them for individual customers. The VVE can be made very close in just a few passes on the dyno, or 2 to 3, 2 hour drives on the street. The static VE can be dialled in much quicker.

    Shops will do what ever they deem as necessary. Some may just tweak the MAF, some will use a base VVE, some will go the while 9 yards and do both the MAF and the VE. If I was doing MAF tunes for a job, I'd probably dial in the MAF and use a custom PID to give a correction map for the VVE. So I'd use the MAF airflow to correct the VVE. This would give a very good VVE for the minimal amount of effort, exactly what a shop needs to be competitive.

  4. #14
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    Hello Simon,

    I agree with you as to what technique would work the "best". The day to day reality (at least in North America perhaps) for modified Gen IV ECMs, seems to be toward MAF only tunes. This may be driven by greed, time constraints, or lack of experience tuning in SD - or perhaps a combination of all. I have seen more than a few vehicles that were "dyno tuned", where the High Speed Mode RPM Enter (B8024) has been reduced from 4000 RPM to 400 RPM - meaning that they run off the MAF 100% of the time.

    That said, there are very good tuners out there, who will give you your money's worth (and more) - it becomes very important to ask at the outset, what type of tune you are potentially purchasing.

    Cheers,
    Taz

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taz View Post
    Hello Simon,

    I agree with you as to what technique would work the "best". The day to day reality (at least in North America perhaps) for modified Gen IV ECMs, seems to be toward MAF only tunes. This may be driven by greed, time constraints, or lack of experience tuning in SD - or perhaps a combination of all. I have seen more than a few vehicles that were "dyno tuned", where the High Speed Mode RPM Enter (B8024) has been reduced from 4000 RPM to 400 RPM - meaning that they run off the MAF 100% of the time.

    That said, there are very good tuners out there, who will give you your money's worth (and more) - it becomes very important to ask at the outset, what type of tune you are potentially purchasing.

    Cheers,
    Taz
    I think there are a lot of factors that come into play that drives tuners to be quick with their tunes. I think a big factor is the lack of customer knowledge in tuning and their feelings on paying $100+ an hour. You get a lot of places advertise $300-$400 for a tune, trying to explain to customers the difference in a custom VE tune and a MAF only tune can be difficult.

    It makes it difficult for someone like I, perfectionist by nature. Every tune I perform I'd like to be perfect, but there is always the fear of shocking the customer with the bill. It doesn't help that there is a local speed shop who specializes in GM Dyno (MAF only) Tuning.
    2002 Z06
    Vengeance Racing Stage 5, H/C/I/3.90 diff, 575 hp
    2016 Chevy SS M6 (daily driver)
    Roto-fab Intake

  6. #16
    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
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    Unfortunately, that is the nature of the typical customer...

    they will go for the $400 tune (MAF only, peak dyno HP) rather than the $1,200 tune (MAF, VE, driveability), regardless of having spent $15,000 on an engine build.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by n8dogg View Post

    1.) It appears as if the VVE tables have remained unchanged and the supercharger option has not been selected. What is this engine controller looking at to determine it's fueling?
    There is no reason at for the "supercharger" option to be selected with this controller at using our product at this time. Just as people do not use the Turbo functions, with other GM ECU's when running a supercharger on them. In the past we did tune the VVE tables with a lot of our GM tunes, as well as the MAF. However, we noticed no significant change in driving/starting/dyno/day to day operations, compared to MAF only. Yes, when dealing with a car with CAM modifications, or being dialed in to absolute perfection for ones fuel type/altitude/mods changing the VVE can have its advantages, however for just the blower being added to a stock car, we have not seen that.

    2.) The MAF table was scaled back, a lot... Wouldn't the added air being forced into the engine mean the MAF should be scaled higher?
    The MAF table is scaled for the correct amount of airflow that the MAF is now seeing, due to the location being changed to the blow through tuning structure.
    This MAF table has a great deal of time spent in placement, to make sure it was getting the "cleanest" signal, as well has having plenty of range for those doing higher HP applications. We do this with every application before it gets put into final production, IE: the MAF is located in the intercooler in some of our GM applications, because that was the cleanest, most repeatable signal we could find. When we had our BETA development C7's undergoing MAF location testing, there was multiple intercooler locations, multiple draw through locations, and multiple blower through locations, before this location was deemed final.

    3.) The AFR was leaned out to 12.7, being forced induction, isn't this too lean? Maybe the direct injection system calls for a leaner AFR.
    That is the correct AFR that needs to be commanded for these cars to make max power, safely on these motors, with the stock cam and F/I. Please take the time to review other threads, internet white papers, and you will see that tuning this LT-1 motor like other "LS" motors, will result in lower power levels, washed down cyl walls, and fuel knock. Technically our tune is set up a little bit rich for our taste, but its easier for a customer to pull a little fuel out, then put a little in after it being to late.

    4.) What exactly is "commanded power mode, A, B, and C"?
    Others have already answered this.

    That's all, feel free to discuss!

    Thanks
    Hope you enjoy the new found power!!! The C7 is a wonderful step for the Corvette, and adding boost is just that much better. I noticed in the other thread you talked about the car you did the install having headers. WITHOUT a doubt, that car will need a custom tune done if it had headers. We tested both AHR, and KOOKS headers on our cars here in house, and both brands required custom changes to our base tune to make them right. (And both brands changes varied as well, so the AHR tune, would not work correct with the KOOKS installed) Something to think about.

  8. #18
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    Awesome, thanks again for an informative response! I look forward to doing more ProCharger installs on these cars in the future!!
    2002 Z06
    Vengeance Racing Stage 5, H/C/I/3.90 diff, 575 hp
    2016 Chevy SS M6 (daily driver)
    Roto-fab Intake

  9. #19
    Lifetime Member wesam's Avatar
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    I can't believe that DI motors will hold boost with 12.7 AFR
    but it seems that we will change our point of view with those new motors
    any body know how much AFR will be safe for NA DI motors if the FI is holding 12.7 ?!!
    EFILive Tuner

  10. #20
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    We are currently tuning a cam,blower,stalled car right now. Stuck using HPT for the control they have. The A/F's are suppose to be lean and the blower drag brings up serious false knock.

    Hoping EFI jumps on this tuning soon. I find it a lot easier to navigate.

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