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Thread: Should I Download to a Later Software Build

  1. #41
    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
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    Hmmm... maybe I'm running beta software and that's why you can't open the file I posted... let me redo that with released software.

  2. #42
    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Bryant View Post
    ...

    The reason that I believe my wideband has failed is shown in the screenshot in post 31 and linked here. I was using the bidirectional controls to control mixture. initially, I left it at 14.7:1 briefly (WBAFR showed stoic and NBO2 voltages still were switching back and forth as they should at about stoic). Then I went to a bi-di controlled commanded a rich AFR of about 13.0:1 (WBAFR showed stoic while the NBO2 voltages went high). Next I used bi-di to command a lean AFR of about 15.3:1 (WBAFR showed stoic while the NBO2 voltages went low). So in the latter two cases, the NBO2 responded correctly to the mixture changes whereas the WBAFR just stayed at stoic (like a bump on a log). I suspect that the Bosch LSU 4.2 sensor has failed since it has already exceeded its normal life. Also, the controller is outputting an analog voltage about 20 mV high when stoic is indicated on the digital indicator.

    All my best,

    Steve
    Oh, I see, WB is not responding.

  3. #43
    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
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    Steve, Merry Christmas to you and your family

  4. #44
    Lifetime Member Steve Bryant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joecar View Post
    Hi Steve,

    2. to use % units you have to enter engine displacement (see Calc.VET thread post #1)... it is easier/better to use g*K/kPa units instead of % (more technically correct)... I don't yet think that your wideband has failed.

    3. this method uses LTFT when in CL and wideband when not in CL (CALC.SELBEN selects CALC.LTFTBEN or CALC.WO2BEN depending on CALC.CL). In many cases it does calculate a correct VE table (I have seen a few where it failed, but only a few). Give it anther try, this time use g*K/kPa for the VE map.
    Joe,
    While you're looking at sending me a tune file using released software, I'd like to focus on your comments 2 and 3 (quoted above).

    2. My EFILive Tune software is set up in the Configure Display Units area to use kPa as the Column Unit of measure and B0104 is set at 746 cc. However, I don't see any way to set up Table B0101 using g*K/kPA . So even if I make a VE MAP in Scan with g*K/kPa data in the table (which I can do and have done), how would I put this information back in the Main VE table in those units since the tune file isn't set up for it?

    3. How does tune know whether to look at SELBEN or WO2BEN at any given time? In my log 20 that I submitted and you looked at, I happened to have logged Fuel System Status A and B (OL vs. CL)., but is that what SELBEN is looking at?

    Thanks,

    Steve

  5. #45
    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
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    H Steve,

    2. In tunetool do Edit->Properties and on the first tab you will see VE table units, select g*K/kPa
    ( I'll make sure to add this info into post #1 of the Calc.VET thread ).
    While in Edit->Properties make sure fueling units are EQR.

    (BTW: to enter displacement in the scantool go Edit->Log File Information->Vehicle Options... but we're avoiing % units so we don't need this)

    3. CALC.SELBEN is looking at the true/false value of CALC.CL...
    CALC.CL is defined as: when commanded EQR is 1.00 return TRUE otherwie return FALSE;

    CALC.SELBEN is defined as iff({CALC.CL}, {CALC.LTFTBEN}, {CALC.WO2BEN})
    which is the same as (if you're a C programmer):
    Code:
            SELBEN = CL ? LTFTBEN : WO2BEN;
    
    which is the same as:
    Code:
            if (CL)
                SELBEN = LTFTBEN;
            else
                SELBEN = WO2BEN;
    
    i.e. when commanding stoich the PCM is able to trim so use LTFTBEN, and when not commanding stoich the PCM is not able to trim so use WO2BEN.


  6. #46
    Lifetime Member Steve Bryant's Avatar
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    Joe,
    Thanks for the update. I was able to do the Edit<Properties business and now I have the VE data set up for g*K/kPA and the mixture units set for equivalence ratio. So is EQ the desired approach for everything? Should I always steer away from lambda and AFR in favor of EQ?

    I worked most of my career in aviation electronics working with wiring interface, flight crew human factor interface, etc. but I never did any programming after college. In college I only learned Fortran. We did learn about "conditional if/IFF" statements, but the language/syntax stated things in the form of if-then format. However, your explanation does add clarity for me!

    Thanks,

    Steve

  7. #47
    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
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    For editing/viewing tables in the tunetool, use EQR to avoid mistakes (EQR > 1 is richer than stoich, EQR < 1 is leaner than stoich)...

    i.e.
    - for commanded fueling, using EQR;
    - for wideband measurements use Lambda;
    this avoids confusion since any EQR we talk about will be from the tables (i.e. commanded fueling),
    and any Lambda we talk about will be measured from the wideband.

    ( keep in mind that Lambda = 1/EQR )

    Note that by using EQR and/or Lambda we're able to avoid having to deal with the different stoich AFR's for available pump gas
    (for example, E10 can have from 5% to 15% alcohol content, so the stoich varies from 14.00 to 14.50).

    The Calc.VET procedure does this:
    - it uses EQR for commanded fueling (GM.EQIVRATIO);
    - it uses Lambda for wideband measured fueling (EXT.WO2LAM1);
    - it mulitplies those two to calculate WO2BEN.

  8. #48
    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
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    With your wideband, CALC.WO2BEN is defined as: {GM.EQUIRATIO} * {CALC.AFR_PLX1}/14.7

    note that {CALC.AFR_PLX1}/14.7 is the wideband's measurement of Lambda...

    i.e. the point is: that mulitplying by wideband Lambda is the same as dividing by wideband EQR.

    :^)

  9. #49
    Lifetime Member Steve Bryant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joecar View Post
    With your wideband, CALC.WO2BEN is defined as: {GM.EQUIRATIO} * {CALC.AFR_PLX1}/14.7

    note that {CALC.AFR_PLX1}/14.7 is the wideband's measurement of Lambda...

    i.e. the point is: that mulitplying by wideband Lambda is the same as dividing by wideband EQR.


    :^)
    Thanks,
    I understand that Lambda and EQ are the inverse of each other and in either case stoic = 1.0. However, I didn't get that WBO2 should be mainly associated with Lambda!

    Someday, when I finish the tuning for my truck (after I get the new WB installed and have sufficient time), I want to have a discussion with you and/or others about how leaving the vehicle in closed loop (when the EQ = 1) can really be used to calibrate anything other than the MAF. So be thinking about that, if you will.

    Regards,

    Steve
    Last edited by Steve Bryant; December 26th, 2014 at 05:36 PM. Reason: reworded part of post

  10. #50
    Lifetime Member Steve Bryant's Avatar
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    Joe,
    I've received my new wideband, but it's too cold to install it in my driveway (16° F now and forecast for 14° F tonight). So while I'm waiting for warmer days, I'd like to study a bit on optimizing the High-Octane Spark Advance and other spark-related parameters.

    Would you provide me a couple of links for some good threads on the subject?

    Thanks,

    Steve
    Last edited by Steve Bryant; December 31st, 2014 at 09:34 AM. Reason: spelling

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