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Thread: correct pid text/expressions for NTK AFRM

  1. #1
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    Default correct pid text/expressions for NTK AFRM

    Im having trouble trying to figure this out. Tuning my 2010 ls3 Camaro. The formulas ntk provides are if the stoich is 14.7 or 14.55? Im using pump gas with up to 10% ethanol (14.2 stoich). I want to tune in lambda which is actual afr/stoich of fuel being used? Here is the pid list I have from the tuner which screwed along far too long not responding to emails etc which is why Im going to do this myself starting out as a maf only tune and than maybe doing the ve tables as well. The tuner just set the B3671 to 14.55. What do I need to change to make this right? Also I can only find commanded AFR for the car not lambda. Even after validating pids.
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  2. #2
    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
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    Hello and Welcome to the forum


    You CALC.BEN_NTK* formulas are incorrect... you should be dividing by commanded AFR or commanded Lambda...

    define your BEN like this: {CALC.LAM_NTK1.Lambda} / {SAE.LAMBDA}


    BTW: you need to append at least 2 blank lines at the end of the calc_pids.txt file.


    Please post your NTK user manual pdf here.

  3. #3
    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
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    Lambda is independent of the fuel's stoich AFR... (i.e. CL is Lambda 1.00 and PE should be around Lambda 1.175).

  4. #4
    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
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    Also your CALC.AFR_NTK2 pid is wrong, it is referencing EXT.AD1 (by referencing CLC-00-003).

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    The tune is currently set to 14.55 for stoich. So really I think the ben factor is lambda the way its wrote from him. Are you referring to eq ratio? The car is commanding .85 lambda in pe. I didn't think any of the pids are correct either, thanks for the Welcome. Hopefully I can learn a thing or two!. Ive bought the master efi tuner book and a book on fuel management from greg banish also one of his dvds. Lots of good info but all with hpt.

  6. #6
    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
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    Try the attached calc_pids.txt file...

    select these pids: EXT.AD1/2, SAE.LAMBDA, CALC.NTK1/2

    use these pids for tuning: CALC.NTK1.BEN

    use these pids for viewing only: CALC.NTK1.AFR (they will be incorrect because your fuel has stoich 14.2).
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  7. #7
    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
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    B3671 should be set to 14.2 (your fuel is E10).

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    To correct this do I need to create a new expression for afr for e10 than divide that by 14.2(stoich in tune) to get lambda? I cannot get the commanded lambda pid to work on my car. Not sure why the car is in storage now but I want to have this all set up ready to go come spring time. I did update the firmware etc and tried to validate the pids and I could still not get the commanded lambda to work.

  9. #9
    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
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    Note: use Lambda for tuning; do not use AFR for tuning

    ( set B3671 to the correct stoich AFR of your fuel )

  10. #10
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    Ok Thanks I just looked at the new pids. Do I need to correct the voltage,afr, and lambda values in the new pid list. This is the ntk unit that replaced the afx. I also see that your still dividing by 14.55 for lambda. Wouldn't that be 14.2 instead? So the only reason to create a new expression would be to get an accurate afr reading for e10? Otherwise I can use the provided formulas from ntk to figure out lambda? Thanks for the help! Much appreciated

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