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Thread: New tuner need help with PID's

  1. #21
    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
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    Ok, calculated VE map looks much better...

    in the two scantool maps, for each map, in the map properties goto the Data tab, and set Precision to 4.


    You need to use Metric:

    - in scantool goto PIDs tab, click twice on Units column (to sort by Unit), and select all the non-Transmission "kPa,psi" rows (click on the first row in a group, then do SHIFT-click on the last row in a group), and on the selection go rightclick->Metric; restart the scantool.

    - in tunetool, go Edit->Configure Display Units, click twice on the Data Units column (to sort by it), and select all the engine segment "psi" rows (click on first, SHIFT-click on last), and on the selection go rightclick->Data Value Units->Metric; then repeat for each of the columns Col Units and Row units; click Ok; restart the tunetool.
    Last edited by joecar; May 24th, 2015 at 05:28 AM.

  2. #22
    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmsmotorsport View Post
    ...

    My W02 is at the end of the exhaust using a Innovate motorsports clamp as its a friends car and he doesn't have a welded bung. I will continue to keep reading through the 60+ pages of info in the CALC.Vet tutorial thread.

    No good (for several reasons: catalysts; exhaust gases have cooled to much; need long cables to reach tailpipe). Innovate has a narrowband output so you can install the wideband sensor in place of the NBO2 sensor, and wire the signal and signal return to NBO2 signal hi and NBO2 signal lo.

    The Calc.VET tutorial consists of post #1 of the Calc.VET thread, and any links it contains (i.e. it points you to several other places that show you how to do things)... so it is far fewer pages than what you said (the remaining posts in the Calc.VET thread are just discussion... post #1 has been updated to contain all the relevant information).

  3. #23
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    Thanks will get it all changed to metric. You say the Calculated map looks better? Do I need to smooth it out? I was worried with the excessive high number in red?

    I had heard that about using the tailpipe, but looking at my commanded to actual at steady idle and parts of my wot runs was pretty close so didn't think much of it. The only problem there is my wide and is AEM I'm guessing no narrowband output? Only the clamp itself is by innovate.

    Also is there a PDF version of the CALC.VET tutorial that goes into the detail like the Auto.VE one?
    Last edited by jmsmotorsport; May 24th, 2015 at 09:26 AM.

  4. #24
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    I have attached another log with the MAF curve changed and the new VE Map smoothed, I am going to see if I can get a bung welded to the exhaust for a better Wo2 reading. I have looked at my log and some of my AFR's are a fair bit off? at 6000rpm WOT commanded 12.64 actual 13.30 this goes up to 14.50 at 6100rpm, also at 900rpm WOT got commanded 12.05 actual 15.30? is this VE or MAF. Have had some trouble with cold idle. I appreciate your help.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  5. #25
    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmsmotorsport View Post
    Thanks will get it all changed to metric. You say the Calculated map looks better? Do I need to smooth it out? I was worried with the excessive high number in red?
    Do just minimal smoothing, flatten out that red spike, but leave most of map as is.

    Also is there a PDF version of the CALC.VET tutorial that goes into the detail like the Auto.VE one?
    Not yet (I'm working on something)... in the meantime you could print post #1 to pdf.

  6. #26
    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmsmotorsport View Post
    I have attached another log with the MAF curve changed and the new VE Map smoothed, I am going to see if I can get a bung welded to the exhaust for a better Wo2 reading. I have looked at my log and some of my AFR's are a fair bit off? at 6000rpm WOT commanded 12.64 actual 13.30 this goes up to 14.50 at 6100rpm, also at 900rpm WOT got commanded 12.05 actual 15.30? is this VE or MAF. Have had some trouble with cold idle. I appreciate your help.
    Too many pid channels (26), this gives you less data per time (i.e. only 5 frames/s vs 10 frames/s)... you need to hae no more than 24 pid channels (see bottom of PIDs tab or Data tab)...

    delete the pid GM.AFR... this is not a useful pid since it can be misleading, and you should be tuning using EQR (GM.EQIVRATIO) and/or Lambda (EXT.WO2LAM1).

    During throttle maneuver, your CALC.WO2BEN (which is GM.EUIVRATIO * EXT.WO2LAM1) ranges from 0.99 to 1.01... this is very good.

  7. #27
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    Ok I will change these few things and do some manual smoothing of the spikes, I did notice it was at 26 and that for some reason has doubled up the CALC Pids, unsure why. The car is feeling a lot better apart from a little idle stall problem when cold, the lean out up top and some knock causing retardation.

  8. #28
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    Joe,

    Was just wondering if there was a listing anywhere of what the main tables do eg: MAF Table - to change AFR @ WOT do we increase or decrease the numbers in the MAF Table? and in the B0101 VE Table - do we increase the numbers to lean out AFR or Decrease? Probably sounds stupid but knowing this will improve my understanding of what i am actually changing by altering these numbers. This will help me smooth my tune and fix issues like leaning out at 6000rpm WOT - I will know to find either the MAF freq at the time it happens and adjust or if tuing VE the Kpa and RPM. Hope it makes sense.

  9. #29
    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
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    MAF and VE: these are used to calculate cylinder airmass.

    CL (trimming to stoich) and Fueling Tables (PE, COTP, EPM, PPM): these determine fuelmass based on cylinder airmass.

    So if calculated airmass increases then fuelmass increases based on fueling tables.

    The trick is to have airmass be correctly modeling actual airmass...

    i.e. first get VE and MAF correct, then select fueling EQR (avoid using AFR, other than for setting stoich AFR in B3601).

    Of course, IFR table must match injector actual flowrate, actual rail pressure, and whether FPR is MAP-referenced or not (i.e. IFR sloped or flat).



    More info, see post #4 here: Summary-Notes

  10. #30
    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
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    If you manipulate PE table to achieve some EQR while airmass is incorrect, you are setting the EQR for a very narrow range of conditions, and you will see conditions where fueling will be totally wrong.

    If you manipulate VE and/or MAF to achieve some EQR, same thing happens, EQR will be good for a narrow range, and will be wrong for other conditions.



    If you first correct VE and MAF, then you simply state what EQR you want in the PE table

    ( and if your IFR, VE, MAF tables are correct, then you see that EQR in the exhaust gases )

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