How are some tuners/resellers deleting with EFI Live?

[catman3126]

See this is what I've been wondering all along just because you guys have given us the parameters to do what we want to keep your sales up and to keep the business going doesn't mean that you're the ones responsible for the people that are actually doing the deleting in the tuning I cannot honestly see how this is any different then a gun manufacturer giving us the tool to commit a crime or to commit a murder but they are never held responsible for the crime. It's not like EFI Love is holding a gun to our head or making US tuners sign a contract saying that we "will perform" deletes on US vehicles if we use your software and say "you will" perform deletes on US-based vehicles with emissions controls in tact,

So make us tuners and resellers sign a form saying you are not held responsible for how we use this tuning tool and give us the parameters that we want and that's it I just don't see how EFI Live can be held responsible.

If our legal system has not found out a way to sue a gun manufacturer for the school shootings that have happened I cannot possibly see how they could find a way to hold you responsible for how we use your tuning product with the parameters you've given us .

[johnyb59]

Tell that to H&S

[catman3126]

Tell that to H&S

Did H@S ever get fined? I see they are still in business and hmmm I wonder where these "New" mini maxx and XRT's keep coming from. They are in business still in texas but now selling their line of performance parts, but with them it was them selling and building the delete tuners. They were building the tuners and the tunes. Efi live is not building the tuners with tunes on them, V2's and Autocal's are blank when we get them. Yes I agree it would be the tune builder that is the one that is choosing to use the tool to perform the delete and that that could be held responsible and even at that they still aren't the ones physically tampering with or altering the actual emissions equipment on said vehicle and using it on a public road.

[anarchydiesel]

H&S got fined $1,000,000 by CARB, they have yet to settle with the EPA. H&S motorsports is actually a different company than H&S performance even though they share the same building in Utah. These "new" minimaxx tuners are hacked bullydog GT units with old H&S firmware. H&S performance is truly out of the tuning game.

[Road]

My understanding is H&S is being sued by General Motors also for using Tis for their base files.

[anarchydiesel]

such things are better off not said on public forum. Anyone (yourself included) should understand those risks and consequences before proceeding to offer such a service. Not just on 4th gen 6.7, but on any platform. To say that one is not worried would be idiocy, having a good legal team is a must. If it makes you feel any better, no one has been given preferential treatment by EFILive. The tools that are used to add user defined data have been in place long before cummins tuning was around. Everyone is lucky that EFILive did not take the route of HP tuners in regards to what is allowed to be edited by the end users on platforms supported before the current legislation went into effect.

[catman3126]

such things are better off not said on public forum. Anyone (yourself included) should understand those risks and consequences before proceeding to offer such a service. Not just on 4th gen 6.7, but on any platform. To say that one is not worried would be idiocy, having a good legal team is a must. If it makes you feel any better, no one has been given preferential treatment by EFILive. The tools that are used to add user defined data have been in place long before cummins tuning was around. Everyone is lucky that EFILive did not take the route of HP tuners in regards to what is allowed to be edited by the end users on platforms supported before the current legislation went into effect.

Edited that last one sorry about that.

[GMPX]

See this is what I've been wondering all along just because you guys have given us the parameters to do what we want to keep your sales up and to keep the business going doesn't mean that you're the ones responsible for the people that are actually doing the deleting in the tuning I cannot honestly see how this is any different then a gun manufacturer giving us the tool to commit a crime or to commit a murder but they are never held responsible for the crime. It's not like EFI Love is holding a gun to our head or making US tuners sign a contract saying that we "will perform" deletes on US vehicles if we use your software and say "you will" perform deletes on US-based vehicles with emissions controls in tact

You live in a country where people sue for coffee being served too hot, Subway being sued because the foot long is only 11 inches, a customer suing a Bob Evan’s restaurant for compensatory and punitive damages for being called an idiot by a waitress (these are all true cases). Common sense and logic don't apply to any of what you said unfortunately.

H&S got fined $1,000,000 by CARB, they have yet to settle with the EPA. H&S motorsports is actually a different company than H&S performance even though they share the same building in Utah. These "new" minimaxx tuners are hacked bullydog GT units with old H&S firmware. H&S performance is truly out of the tuning game.

I feel a bit sorry for those guys, they were certainly on top of the game with hand held tuning product development at the time. But we all remember the YouTube LML video that caused a stir and probably led to their downfall

My understanding is H&S is being sued by General Motors also for using Tis for their base files.

I've not heard that but I can't see how that can be proven when Alientech KTAG is the device used to get the tunes out of the ECM's.

If it makes you feel any better, no one has been given preferential treatment by EFILive. The tools that are used to add user defined data have been in place long before cummins tuning was around. Everyone is lucky that EFILive did not take the route of HP tuners in regards to what is allowed to be edited by the end users on platforms supported before the current legislation went into effect.

That is right, we've given users the ability to build on the available maps pretty much after we moved on from just an LS1 tuner. Right now we choose not to include any obvious 'naughty' parameters for all late model Diesels. Blind Freddy can see that doing so would be commercial suicide in this day and age, it is not 2005 any more, we've had to accept the landscape of Diesel tuning has changed, many tuners have now done the same to protect themselves and won't do any emissions defeat tunes.

[catman3126]

[QUOTE=GMPX;223463]You live in a country where people sue for coffee being served too hot, Subway being sued because the foot long is only 11 inches, a customer suing a Bob Evan’s restaurant for compensatory and punitive damages for being called an idiot by a waitress (these are all true cases). Common sense and logic don't apply to any of what you said unfortunately.

Oh I know how messed up our legal system can be. But did you see the burns on that lady. it was actually pretty severe and they coffee was almost 200deg. well there is always another way to make money. I have not had anyone come to me in a couple months now for tuning on anything older then 09' on the Cummins side. with emissions on it so since you have all the Cummins and Duramax and Colorado updates out what is the chance that you could look into the 03-05 cummins stuff. kinda surprising how much I get asked about those still. the thing with those years is that younger generations are able to afford them now and we all know what kids like to do to their diesels so there is still a market for them too.

[kidturbo]

You live in a country where people sue for coffee being served too hot, Subway being sued because the foot long is only 11 inches, a customer suing a Bob Evan’s restaurant for compensatory and punitive damages for being called an idiot by a waitress (these are all true cases). Common sense and logic don't apply to any of what you said unfortunately.

Planning on moving to the states anytime soon? If so bring that Holden, those are outlawed over here too... lol

If not, proudly raise a flag and use location to your advantage. I had similar discussion about geographic law with Sean Parker over a decade back while living and working in India. Napster (remember them) was being sued out of existance. I said "Sean move those seed severs over here in Asia were a little USD out weights all US copyrights." But he had investors and a board to answer too. We all know how that one played out... Bit Torrent became popular within the year.

Always someone else willing and waiting. Today most of them live in Russia, India or China. And they just haven't stumbled into this niche market yet.

Just Saying