How are some tuners/resellers deleting with EFI Live?

[kidturbo]

Interesting topic. Obviously greed is alive and well in the tuner community. While young computer hackers are schooling the OEM's on their own hardware systems. Suggest completely skip begging from tuners and software manufactures, and going straight to the Defcon hackers community who've recently found the auto market a new playground. The ones who handed Chrysler Fiat [along with Tesla] engineers their nuts in a bag last month. They eat this stuff up, and post how too's and source code for bragging rights.

Offer up a small bounty or prize in the car hacking forums, some 14yr old will get it done. Especially if you say someone else has it and won't share... lol

[Cummins610]

Well there is a ton of incompetent/new tuners with CAX files a plenty for the 10+ trucks, something tells me no way that all these people are sourcing files alone, I can defiantly understand why this is not an issue from a business standpoint though, VIN licenses are still flying out the door..

[catman3126]

If this business is going to continue to grow no one wants tunes without delete. I have to date been asked to tune "ONE" LML without deleting it. all he wanted was the throttle response and see if I could get him a little better mpg but mainly wanted better less sluggish throttle. Which I have done to mine and don't plan on deleting my 15 lml. and it makes it so much nicer to drive. I have actually bought into other tuning equipment and see a whole new market that is completely un tapped and will be putting my efforts into this and not continuing much in the Duramax and Cummins tuning. This company gives us what we need.....

[GMPX]

You guys seem bitter towards us, but there is always more to the story than you might think and we still provide a product that is allow you to tune vehicles. Yes the market has changed somewhat and the way things get done but this was not driven by us or our customers, but it is definitely leaning towards the European way of doing things for a variety of reasons.

[catman3126]

You guys seem bitter towards us, but there is always more to the story than you might think. Yes the market has changed somewhat and the way things get done but this was not driven by us or our customers.

We understand where you are coming from with the protecting your company, If it is so risky for EFI live to give us the parameters to delete any of the diesel's that EFI Live tune's why hasn't the EPA gone after the US based tuners building these delete tunes? and if they aren't cracking down on them what makes EFI Live think they would come after them in a foreign country? The videos being put out by users with certain US tuners may not be the dirty smoking videos that H@S and Smarty tuned vehicles were spawning but it's no secret that deleting is going on? I know for me I would be able to be a much better "reseller" if I could even keep in the competition with other reseller's Let alone keep up with them. As it stands right now tuning for me has dwindled due to not be able to offer what I used too. at some point if I don't keep up with the competition then I'll be out with the new reseller agreement where I need to sell 5 V2's per year to stay "bought in" As far As I know I have not had anyone goto another tuner after using my tunes and have well over a 150 vehicles tuned. (which I know is not a lot compared to others) but I get asked weekly when I will be offering what the other tuners are because word of mouth business has got me to the point where customers want to use my services. I'm not bitter it is your company to do with as you please. Also if this "Pro tuning" is going to be the answer to what I need I would like to know more about it but have not gotten much Info except for what I got from Guy explaining why Efi Live was going to it and also Cindy saying it is still in development.

[GMPX]

We understand where you are coming from with the protecting your company, If it is so risky for EFI live to give us the parameters to delete any of the diesel's that EFI Live tune's

'Risky', more like commercial suicide.

why hasn't the EPA gone after the US based tuners building these delete tunes?

I don't know, maybe they will at some point, look back over the last 5 years and see what has gone down already.
We are under no illusions that EFILive not offering emission defeat parameters is going to stop people achieving what they want to do, they will just look elsewhere for a solution and that is a hard pill to swallow for us I can assure you.
What about GM, stopping the shipping of the new Diesel Colorado.....
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...icroscope.html

Also if this "Pro tuning" is going to be the answer to what I need I would like to know more about it but have not gotten much Info except for what I got from Guy explaining why Efi Live was going to it and also Cindy saying it is still in development.

No, 'Pro Tuning' isn't going to open up any emissions defeat options for US based tuners, that was never its intention. The 'Pro Tuning' was more about allowing people to bypass many of the safety and sanity checks in the software, in other words we will let you brick ECM's and it is not our fault

[catman3126]

I get it, you see a different side of the business then I do and I'm sure have plenty of legal advice to aid in your decisions as you should in your situation.

As for the Colorado, I have no doubt we are going to see some US motor vehicles that have done the same thing. I see a certain model of vehicle in my shop on occasion and these have never been deleted and yet the tailpipe or exhaust tip'(S) if you get my drift are as black as a deleted diesel or old non emissions diesel and yet have all their equipment intact. So I can just imagine that this could be the next one to get busted for these emissions defeat factory tuning in place. I'm willing to bet the EPA is going to be testing many more US diesels as new models come out or the ones that are already out. Glad I shouldn't need to buy pro tuning as I haven't found much that isn't in the tuning now that I can't achieve the desired results with. Do manufacturers do "On road" testing to ensure they are meeting epa levels? I hope so or at the least the Colorado doesn't have any defeat tuning in it. that would not be pretty. if the first two (VW and GM) tested are doing defeat tuning then I'd bet every diesel is going to get tested.

[catman3126]

I bet the gm vehicle passes..... I have faith lol. plus I kinda want one.

[GMPX]

I bet the gm vehicle passes..... I have faith lol. plus I kinda want one.

The engine is a pretty new design and meets Euro5 as it is, so with GM's emissions additions for the US market I think it'll be fine too. From GM's perspective I totally understand it is far better to delay the release and have all ducks in a row than have to do a recall and get fined by the EPA, or sued by customers claiming stress and pain from their truck not being what they thought it was

http://www.vmmotori.com/a-428-dohc/a...28-dohcen.html

Cheers,
Ross

[kidturbo]

Ross, EFIlive has been top shelf software since day one. It's standard options gives it that edge over competitors. But I have to agree that as of lately, this skittish approach to allowing user full access to it's programming potential is kinda lame. Truth be told, according US rules, "any" changes made to ECU calibrations in on road vehicles not certified by the EPA are a direct violation. Pretty simple language, been in there forever, just never enforced outside California. So ultimately everything falls back on the person making such changes. Unless your an easily scared off US corp that runs from an easy fight that is... Then your business ultimately moves to the guy who isn't. Correct?

That said, it's a big world out there where rules vary greatly from country to country. Even here in the states, the marine industry is running exact same engines above and not bound by those same on-road restrictions. I'm one of your customers in that side of this. Giving users the power to modify ECU parameters in no way promotes illegal activities. No more than TOR software promotes breaking into secure computer networks.. Especially when you have halve dozen warnings poppig up explaining the legalities. Gotta be able to read to use the software. The due diligence is well covered. So please keep up the good work in advancing ECU development, or someone else will just step up to take over the duties.

Cheers,

-K