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Thread: Low speed GMLAN (SWCAN)

  1. #11
    Forum tyhee Site Admin GMPX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DURAtotheMAX View Post
    Flexible-Data rate CAN. Works at speeds >1mbps, and up to 64-byte(!) message. Its the new encrypted CAN/GMLAN bus that GM will be moving over to within the next couple of years when they roll out the new Global-B electrical architecture to replace the current Global-A.
    I suspect it will be further away than a couple of years. I think the current CAN hardware in CPU's can do 1mbps already, but to be honest we aren't going to start speculating or working on something that doesn't yet exist.

    Quote Originally Posted by DURAtotheMAX View Post
    I suspect OBD tuning will basically end when they go to encrypted CAN. 5 byte seed/key stored in the cloud. :(
    It is already on one Cadillac vehicle now....and yes I agree this potentially spells the end as you cannot brute force attack a 5 byte Key unless you have about 10 years to wait, scary thought but the day will come over all platforms when we are essentially locked out for good.
    Need official EFILive help, please go here.
    For tuning support please post your questions on this forum (or other auto forums).
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  2. #12
    Lifetime Member Tre-Cool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMPX View Post
    I suspect it will be further away than a couple of years. I think the current CAN hardware in CPU's can do 1mbps already, but to be honest we aren't going to start speculating or working on something that doesn't yet exist.


    It is already on one Cadillac vehicle now....and yes I agree this potentially spells the end as you cannot brute force attack a 5 byte Key unless you have about 10 years to wait, scary thought but the day will come over all platforms when we are essentially locked out for good.
    How does this affect some of the legal mandates in regards to consumers being able to read/clear error faults etc. Isn't that what the obdi2 standard was designed to be? i.e a "free" and open communication platform so the vehicle manufacturers couldn't lock out the independent workshops.

  3. #13
    Lifetime Member Cougar281's Avatar
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    I wonder if there will be unencrypted traffic on the bus specifically for the purpose of pulling/resetting codes? At the same time, as far as i know, there is a federal law that says that reflashing modules cannot be a dealer only thing, that independent shops must be able to reflash as well. Should be interesting....

  4. #14
    Forum tyhee Site Admin GMPX's Avatar
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    Good points guys, but when you subscribe to TIS for flashing the 'tool' is dumb and just passes data from the PC to the car, if that requires an internet connection so GM can talk back to their server to unlock the car (and figure encryption) then that is how it will be. It will remain an option for non dealers to be able to do that, encrypted or not it doesn't really matter because their system knows the encryption keys.
    I suspect simple things like checking DTC's etc will still need to remain open.
    Need official EFILive help, please go here.
    For tuning support please post your questions on this forum (or other auto forums).
    Sorry if I don't respond to your PM, don't take it personal.


  5. #15
    Lifetime Member DURAtotheMAX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MobileProg View Post
    From what I understand it will be some time until the encryption portion will be actually enabled or implemented, even after the new bus is introduced.
    But with the new Global-B architecture offering over-the-air software update capability, how do they expect to combat the potential for the vehicles to be hacked wirelessly?? With an unencrypted bus, it would be easy for someone to hack and take control of the vehicle. They've already proved this on some of the newest chrysler vehicles.
    2005 Silverado, CC/SB, 4x4, LT, LILLY/Allison
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  6. #16
    Lifetime Member DURAtotheMAX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMPX View Post
    It is already on one Cadillac vehicle now....and yes I agree this potentially spells the end as you cannot brute force attack a 5 byte Key unless you have about 10 years to wait, scary thought but the day will come over all platforms when we are essentially locked out for good.
    But theoretically we could still tune, just have to do what the european's have been doing for years...open the ECM up and flash via JTAG?

    Which Cadillac vehicle/ECM is the encrypted flashing already being used on?
    2005 Silverado, CC/SB, 4x4, LT, LILLY/Allison
    12.9s @ 108 mph

    many thanks to Ross and Paul

  7. #17
    Lifetime Member DURAtotheMAX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMPX View Post
    I suspect simple things like checking DTC's etc will still need to remain open.
    x2...Im sure DTC's, emissions readiness tests, and the small group of EPA-generic PIDs will still be unencrypted/easily accessible.
    2005 Silverado, CC/SB, 4x4, LT, LILLY/Allison
    12.9s @ 108 mph

    many thanks to Ross and Paul

  8. #18
    Lifetime Member Chavez91's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DURAtotheMAX View Post
    Flexible-Data rate CAN. Works at speeds >1mbps, and up to 64-byte(!) message. Its the new encrypted CAN/GMLAN bus that GM will be moving over to within the next couple of years when they roll out the new Global-B electrical architecture to replace the current Global-A.

    I suspect OBD tuning will basically end when they go to encrypted CAN. 5 byte seed/key stored in the cloud. :(

    I dont blame them for going to encryped CAN though; Global-B will support over-the-air software updates and wireless diagnostics, so security pretty much HAS to be implemented on the bus to protect us from cyber attacks, etc.

    I was reading about this just the other day. It's a pretty interesting implementation. Gonna make it a PITA for us tho.
    Josh
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  9. #19
    Forum tyhee Site Admin GMPX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DURAtotheMAX View Post
    But theoretically we could still tune, just have to do what the european's have been doing for years...open the ECM up and flash via JTAG?
    Time for a new career if it comes to that

    Quote Originally Posted by DURAtotheMAX View Post
    Which Cadillac vehicle/ECM is the encrypted flashing already being used on?
    2016+ 3.6L LGX motor, not encrypted flashing but 5 byte seed/key. Which if they have a 10 second timer per attempt means it would take about 348,652 years to find the key if you brute force it.
    Need official EFILive help, please go here.
    For tuning support please post your questions on this forum (or other auto forums).
    Sorry if I don't respond to your PM, don't take it personal.


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