Migrate from HP tuners to EFI Live HSV VE 6.2L Heartbeat sc

[rich24v]

Because I did'nt want to risk screwing up my installed pcm and hptune, I decided to buy a brand new pcm from a very helpful guy in Oz who sent it to HSV to have some initial work done.
Then he flashed in the efilive tune I had from Patrick Guerra. I also bought a bench harness so I could pull the tune, do a compare and make a couple of minor changes before I swapped out the PCM
in the car.
New pcm is in the car, I tried to run through the VATS learn but was not successful, the car won't even crank. I checked out this thread:-

https://forum.efilive.com/showthread...-disable-guide

It does mention a relearn method (I'm not wanting to disable vats, unless as absolute last resort), my car is HSV factory setup apart from supercharger ect.

I'm going to try this:- (copied from the thread)

1) Initialise Relink using the scan tool (with key on, engine off)
2) perform key on, wait, key off as per the relearn timer and counter cals.
3) key off, then start (should be linked now)
Yes correct, that is pretty much what GM service spells out as the procedure. You have the timer (set to 10mins stock) then the number of timer countdowns that must be done (set to 3 stock), so 3 x 10 = 30min relearn with key off after each 10min timer ends.


I wonder though, in efilive scan/tune, if you look at system/VATS/parameters in the table there is the timer which has 600 seconds, if you highlight that field the dialog box gives a vats relearn procedure:-

Ignition must be on for this long before the new theft password is learnt, this must also occur the number of times specified in {G1214} "Relearn Count".

To relink the VATS to a new / exhange ECM perform the following steps -
1 - Turn ON the ignition for 5 seconds (do not start yet).
2 - Attempt to start the engine (it should not run), then just turn the key back to the 'ON' position.
3 - Leave the key in this position until the SECURITY lamp turns off (length of time is specified by this calibration).
4 - Turn the ignition off for 15 seconds.
5 - Repeat the steps 1 - 4 the number of times specified in {G1214} "Relearn Count".
6 - The engine should now start as the VATS codes have been learnt by the ECM.


This procedure is different to what Ive read on the forum, particularly the attemp to start, I did try to do this but did'nt recall the security lamp coming on
at any stage (it does work though)

Can I chage the timer to say 20secs to speed things up a little (change it back later) and if I do, a flash will update it, but should I really do a full flash ?

Really do find all this vats stuff very confusing, in short, all I'm trying to do is install a new pcm (previously prepared by hsv and tune ready flashed in.

Or....is there a more recent guide, or anyone else here that knows the method inside out for swapping out pcm's in factory setups ?

Thanks in advance.

[Blacky]

Regards
Paul

[rich24v]

Regards
Paul

Thanks Paul,
I found that button ok,
To get the VAT relink button to go bold I had to do a check status in the Locking tab.
Then clicking the VAT relink button:-


So switched ignition off and back on again, waited for 10minutes.....during this time there was no change as if anything was happening.

I tried setting ignition cycles to 3, but got this message:-


I also went back to this:-
To relink the VATS to a new / exhange ECM perform the following steps -
1 - Turn ON the ignition for 5 seconds (do not start yet).
2 - Attempt to start the engine (it should not run), then just turn the key back to the 'ON' position.
3 - Leave the key in this position until the SECURITY lamp turns off (length of time is specified by this calibration).
4 - Turn the ignition off for 15 seconds.
5 - Repeat the steps 1 - 4 the number of times specified in {G1214} "Relearn Count".
6 - The engine should now start as the VATS codes have been learnt by the ECM.

This time waiting 10minutes after ignition on, but nothing at all seems to be happening, so my car is still not cranking.

Really sorry, but I'm failing here......

[GMPX]

I am not 100% sure on this but I think on a HSV there is more to it than the regular Commodore.Even though HSV may have programmed the correct tune in to the ECM the dealer would have to link the Theft Module to the ECM using TechII/MDI. This is the procedure on TIS.......

K20 Engine Control Module: Programming and Setup (L76, L77, L98, LS3)

The following service procedures require either a programming or a setup event performed for a complete repair.
ECM Replacement
Warning: Replacement or reprogramming of the ECM, or replacement of the clutch pedal position sensor (CPPS) or clutch pedal requires that a CPPS learn procedure be performed. Failure to perform the CPPS learn procedure may result in personal injury or damage to the vehicle or its components if the vehicle is in gear and the starter motor is accidentally engaged.


If the engine control module (ECM) is replaced, the following procedures must be performed:

• ECM reset procedure
• ECM reprogramming—Refer to Service Programming System (SPS).
• The Throttle Learn procedure—Refer to Q38 Throttle Body: Throttle/Idle Learn.
• The Crankshaft Position Variation Learn—Refer to Crankshaft Position System Variation Learn.
• The Theft Deterrent Programming—Refer to Theft Deterrent Module (TDM) Programming and Setup.
• Brake Pedal Position Sensor Learn—Refer to Brake Pedal Position Sensor Learn.
• The Clutch Pedal Position Sensor Learn—Refer to Clutch Pedal Position Sensor Learn.

TDM Link to ECM
Important: Performing the TDM link to ECM procedure may require TIS approval. Refer to Obtaining TIS Approval for more information.


Important: A new TDM is already unlocked and in learn mode, for new TDMs the 10 minute wait to enter learn mode will not be required.

When linking a previously programmed TDM or ECM, or reprogramming all transponder keys, there will be a 10 minute wait while the TDM enters learn mode. There are two types of learn mode:

• When linking an ECM to an existing TDM, the TDM must be unlocked in order to transmit the security data; this does not erase transponder keys. There is no timer displayed for this type of learn.
• When a TDM is linked to an existing ECM or all transponder keys are programmed the TDM must be unlocked in order to transmit the security data and existing transponder keys will be erased. There is a timer displayed for this type of learn. Once the first two keys are programmed, the TDM exits learn mode and allows additional transponder keys to be reprogrammed.

• Install a diagnostic scan tool.
• Key ON, engine OFF, select Body.
• Select Theft Deterrent.
• Select Programming.
• Select V6 or V8 engine, depending on the vehicle being reprogrammed.
• Select Theft Deterrent link to ECM.
• Obtain TIS approval then repeat steps 1–6. Important: The Security Code is a four digit code that is located on the vehicle security card supplied with the vehicle. For more details on the vehicle security card refer to the owner handbook.
  
  
• Enter Security Code and follow the directions displayed on the screen. Important: To perform the TDM Link to ECM as a security measure two pre-programmed transponder keys must be present. The TDM will unlock and learn the first of the transponder keys, the second transponder key must then be inserted and accepted by the TDM. When the TDM has recognized both valid transmitter keys it will then move to link to the ECM.
  
  Important: If two transponder keys are not present at the time of reprogramming a possible vehicle non-start event can occur.
  
  

[rich24v]

Quick note (late and I'm knackered and have work next day) car runs, can't really put my finger on exact how I managed it though.
I'll post up roughly what I did.
It's rich as hell and has check engine light, but at least it runs which is a 100% more than this morning !!

[rich24v]

I am not 100% sure on this but I think on a HSV there is more to it than the regular Commodore.Even though HSV may have programmed the correct tune in to the ECM the dealer would have to link the Theft Module to the ECM using TechII/MDI. This is the procedure on TIS.......

K20 Engine Control Module: Programming and Setup (L76, L77, L98, LS3)

The following service procedures require either a programming or a setup event performed for a complete repair.
ECM Replacement
Warning: Replacement or reprogramming of the ECM, or replacement of the clutch pedal position sensor (CPPS) or clutch pedal requires that a CPPS learn procedure be performed. Failure to perform the CPPS learn procedure may result in personal injury or damage to the vehicle or its components if the vehicle is in gear and the starter motor is accidentally engaged.


If the engine control module (ECM) is replaced, the following procedures must be performed:

• ECM reset procedure
• ECM reprogramming—Refer to Service Programming System (SPS).
• The Throttle Learn procedure—Refer to Q38 Throttle Body: Throttle/Idle Learn.
• The Crankshaft Position Variation Learn—Refer to Crankshaft Position System Variation Learn.
• The Theft Deterrent Programming—Refer to Theft Deterrent Module (TDM) Programming and Setup.
• Brake Pedal Position Sensor Learn—Refer to Brake Pedal Position Sensor Learn.
• The Clutch Pedal Position Sensor Learn—Refer to Clutch Pedal Position Sensor Learn.

TDM Link to ECM
Important: Performing the TDM link to ECM procedure may require TIS approval. Refer to Obtaining TIS Approval for more information.


Important: A new TDM is already unlocked and in learn mode, for new TDMs the 10 minute wait to enter learn mode will not be required.

When linking a previously programmed TDM or ECM, or reprogramming all transponder keys, there will be a 10 minute wait while the TDM enters learn mode. There are two types of learn mode:

• When linking an ECM to an existing TDM, the TDM must be unlocked in order to transmit the security data; this does not erase transponder keys. There is no timer displayed for this type of learn.
• When a TDM is linked to an existing ECM or all transponder keys are programmed the TDM must be unlocked in order to transmit the security data and existing transponder keys will be erased. There is a timer displayed for this type of learn. Once the first two keys are programmed, the TDM exits learn mode and allows additional transponder keys to be reprogrammed.

• Install a diagnostic scan tool.
• Key ON, engine OFF, select Body.
• Select Theft Deterrent.
• Select Programming.
• Select V6 or V8 engine, depending on the vehicle being reprogrammed.
• Select Theft Deterrent link to ECM.
• Obtain TIS approval then repeat steps 1–6. Important: The Security Code is a four digit code that is located on the vehicle security card supplied with the vehicle. For more details on the vehicle security card refer to the owner handbook.
  
  
• Enter Security Code and follow the directions displayed on the screen. Important: To perform the TDM Link to ECM as a security measure two pre-programmed transponder keys must be present. The TDM will unlock and learn the first of the transponder keys, the second transponder key must then be inserted and accepted by the TDM. When the TDM has recognized both valid transmitter keys it will then move to link to the ECM.
  
  Important: If two transponder keys are not present at the time of reprogramming a possible vehicle non-start event can occur.
  
  

Thanks gmpx.

That's an awful lot to have to go through......beginning to wish I'd bitten the bullet and simply full flashed the stock pcm.........oh well......trying to mitigate risk and brought me more trouble than it's saved

[Tre-Cool]

Flash HPT tune into the new one with vats turned off?

Then use original to convert back to original OS and Efi tune ?

[rich24v]

Flash HPT tune into the new one with vats turned off?

Then use original to convert back to original OS and Efi tune ?

i like your thinking there, was going to turn vats off for the new pcm, get it tuned reasonable, then full flash the old pcm with vats turned on and replace. Not like I want to keep the hpt tune
once I have efilive running it's junk

[rich24v]

So, some good progress.
Clutch pedal position learn was holding up start, I think had I done that after installing the pcm I'd have got going more quickly.
The tune was set up with a maf which I don't actually have installed, so set all that to off per Swingtan's excellent guide for VVE tuning.
Also set to open loop, so never got to grips with trying to get fueling down.
Crank position P0315 constant pain, the dvt/F12 tool for relearn position worked a treat, not as harsh as I'd thought. Start engine, foot on brake, activate, then start re-learn.
Slowly rev to 4krpm(whilst nervously watching the PLX WB guages!!), injectors will cut and recover engine, return to idle (by this time learn is done and engine light out !)
Found that I need to do lock/unlock sequence after a pcm flash so that engine remains running after re-start.
I'm using parts of the old VE table from the hpt tune after some scaling and interpolation (many thanks Behold !)
Just need to set up proper pids file and get some tuning done !!!

[joecar]

...
Crank position P0315 constant pain, the dvt/F12 tool for relearn position worked a treat, not as harsh as I'd thought. Start engine, foot on brake, activate, then start re-learn.
Slowly rev to 4krpm(whilst nervously watching the PLX WB guages!!), injectors will cut and recover engine, return to idle (by this time learn is done and engine light out !)

Typically the ECM gives you a 10-15 second window to rev up above 4000 rpm. It looks like you got the CASE relearn done.

Found that I need to do lock/unlock sequence after a pcm flash so that engine remains running after re-start.
...

Odd.