Tables missing in efi live

[AGRO]

Hi all,
this is not a post to start a war or a hp vs efi.
Ive been running efi since it was released, I have a few streams.
This has allowed us to produce serious results, but the last few years ive noticed a few
tables that hp has and efi does not. I've been using a mix of efi and hp to tune certain applications.

if there is any interest in adding these tables, I'll happily post the missing ones. This is for E38/E67
Ross, Paul, please chime in.

[Snipesy]

Well...

You can reverse engineer your own ECM. And do whatever you want with the knowledge you gain. The knowledge you learn is yours. You can use it and whatever it is you make is your IP.

You can modify the original work (the OEM tune) and any changes you make are your IP. Yes you can claim copyright infringement if someone steals your tune. But your IP covers only your changes. Nothing else.

You can't share the software you reverse engineered. That is not yours. But this does need precedence. You can't just suddenly sue everyone for millions if you never enforced your IP.

You can take a work and comment it or add annotations as it's called. These annotations are your IP. These annotations are what EFI Live offers.

So there you have it. It is illegal. At least in the USA. Efi live is NZ so who knows, they could probably get away with it. But blatantly stealing like your suggesting is asking for trouble.

[ScarabEpic22]

I'll let Paul/Ross/Cindy chime in on this, but EFILive is not going to play 1-for-1 table comparison with any competitor. The parameters/tables released allows likely 95-98% of changes that need to be made and the additional R&D time for the others, across all the OS's on these controllers, doesn't make it a cost-effective endeavor. If there is a table you've found absolutely critical that you use on the majority of your tunes, that would be something EFILive *might* consider adding.

[GMPX]

I'll let Paul/Ross/Cindy chime in on this, but EFILive is not going to play 1-for-1 table comparison with any competitor. The parameters/tables released allows likely 95-98% of changes that need to be made and the additional R&D time for the others, across all the OS's on these controllers, doesn't make it a cost-effective endeavor. If there is a table you've found absolutely critical that you use on the majority of your tunes, that would be something EFILive *might* consider adding.

Nailed it Erik, thanks for spelling out the reality of the situation.

EFILive is a very small company compared to HPT, we have limited personnel to be able to keep up with new ECM's, new models and new projects. We like it that way to be honest but the sacrifice is that we can't continue to enhance products that are coming up on 10 years old (yes the E38 came out 10 years ago now). As Erik said what is there covers 95%+ of users needs which is a good result, those that want beyond that our software is open to user expansion via .cax files where you can add in your own maps if you have to means to locate and define them yourself (like what Snipesy above did so well with the Cruze Diesel E47 ECM).
We did recently add in a lot of T43 tables that people had been asking for (again this controller is 10 years old now), but that will be it, no more additions for that TCM now, we have to draw the line at some point but that did need some attention which is why we did it.
I know it is hard from your perspective AGRO because E38 is still very relevant with what comes through tuning shops on a daily basis, but E38 doesn't pay our wages, rent and bills so we can no longer spend time on them (and other ECM's of the same era and older). We aren't all about the money but we can't afford to work for free either.

[AGRO]

Thanks for the response.
business is business, we need to keep it rolling, but here is the situation,
to keep my business ticking over all business's need products that can do the job, so we can live.
we pay for products to provide a service to earn a wage.

It's a vicious circle, if a product cannot support my needs, a business cannot support their customers business loses the customer, then the product supplier also loses business.
i hope that makes sense.
in short, if I don't get support I can't offer support, I guess I'll have to move on.
its just business I guess.

Not having the support has stopped me from purchasing the e67 stream, I never purchased the t43 stream for the same reason.
i hope you understand.

[Chevy366]

Thanks for the response.
business is business, we need to keep it rolling, but here is the situation,
to keep my business ticking over all business's need products that can do the job, so we can live.
we pay for products to provide a service to earn a wage.

It's a vicious circle, if a product cannot support my needs, a business cannot support their customers business loses the customer, then the product supplier also loses business.
i hope that makes sense.
in short, if I don't get support I can't offer support, I guess I'll have to move on.
its just business I guess.

Not having the support has stopped me from purchasing the e67 stream, I never purchased the t43 stream for the same reason.
i hope you understand.

Nailed it!
Lack of support and unwillingness to supply said support will get you every time. But hey business is business right?

[GMPX]

Guys, just pause for a second and think about many of the electronic products and software in your life and ongoing updates for them. Phones are a prime example, after four or five years you will be told new updates won't be available for your phone. Same with software, doesn't matter if it is Windows or OSX at some point you cannot update if your hardware is old. Or how about a video game you got back in 2006 and asking the developer to add new levels for free, not going to happen right because they are flat out working on patches for the game they released in 2013 and the new one coming in 2017. I don't think EFILive is being selfish or greedy in some way, it is just the nature of the product we develop.
Yes AGRO it is a vicious circle and I can assure you if we spent all our days just enhancing older platforms like LS1, E38/E67 and T43's then this would be the forum formally run by EFILive who since closed down. I have not even looked at what was added for T43 but I believe it is very comprehensive and covers all known requests from many years of people asking. Was it too late to appease the angst? Probably, but at least it finally got done and the topic can be put to rest.

[AGRO]

Ross, the e38 is still being used, we have plenty of 2016 built cars rolling through the door, they're all equipped with e38 ecu's........ They're still in production. It's funny how Gm keep updating their e38 ecu's, yet they're 10 years old.
i agree with not developing the ls1 platform, it's been buried. But the e38 is still going.
in my opinion, if the user wants more tables and is advised to write their own maps, well the cost of the tool should be reduced by 50% or more.
Anyway point taken, no more support for e38.
business is business.

[Road]

As long as your customers are still buying credits and streams then I think there should still be support for a product you offer. And what I see happening here is you have customers that have spent large amounts of money with a company that is not willing to offer support and now your customers are faced with a situation to go elsewhere to get the support to please their customers. And now more and more of your biggest AutoCal sellers are having to hire developers to write files and now I see them using other tuning software to cut cost and to keep up with competition. I operate a small shop and have spent well over 15K this year with other developers so I could meet my customers demands. I respect EFI Live but as everyone is stating business is business.