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Thread: Questions about WideBand 02 Sensors

  1. #1
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    Default Questions about WideBand 02 Sensors

    1) If I bought/had a Bosch 17025 or 17123 wideband 02 sensor (LSU 4.9 5-wire), could I connect that to any random wideband controller (sold new on ebay)?

    2) My LS powered car has 2 narrowband 02's before the cats. Where should I mount the wideband (and narrowbands)?

    3) Is it 100% okay to just have 1 wideband 02 sensor hooked up (along with the 2 narrowband 02's), or would 2 be better?

  2. #2
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    1) Needs to have a kit to work properly, just hooking up sensors to any WBO2 controller likely will not work well (if at all). I'd suggest Innovate, AEM, or NGK/ECM (think Ballinger makes them now?).
    2) Leave front NB02s intact, best position for WBO2 is pre-cat if possible, 12-18" downstream of engine. Look at what the WBO2 kit you purchase recommends, they vary slightly. Post-cat is ok, just will be a laggier signal so steady state tuning is even more critical.
    3) Yes, most people just use 1 WBO2 to tune a vehicle. If you're concerned you might have a bank to bank difference, then 2 could be used to sanity check. Or once you're done tuning, just swap the WBO2 to the other bank and log again. LTFT/STFTs will help you out here during part throttle and idle, if you're within a few % then should be good. Make sure you tune for the leaner bank.
    ~Erik~
    2013 Sonic RS Manual - 1.4L I4T E78, tuned, turbo mods, etc.
    2008 TrailBlazer SS 3SS AWD Summit White - LS2 E67/T42, bolt ons, suspension, etc.
    2002 Chevy TrailBlazer LT 4X4 Summit White - 4.2L I6 P10, lifted, wheels, etc.

  3. #3
    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
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    The wideband sensor requires a wideband controller, as Erik said above.



    Pre-cat allows the wideband to see O2 content before catalyst has modified it; catalyst modifies O2 content at anything other than WOT.

    Post-cat is ok if you're only tuning WOT, but you probably want to tune PT also.

    Keep in mind that you want to disable CL/trims while you're tuning.

    ( also keep in mind that some wideband controllers provide narrowband outputs that can be used to drive the PCM's NBO2 input )



    I've been logging 2 widebands, I have my calc pids setup to dynamically use the leanest wideband (i.e. on the fly)

    ( of course if you see them diverging more than a few % then you know something is gone wrong )

  4. #4
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    Thanks guys.

    The reason why I (REALLY) want to use Bosch wb's is because I can get used ones for free (which I just realised last night) and actually found x4 Bosch 17123 (short lead) sensors today at my work (though the wires/plugs have been cut off on 2 of them.. spewing).

    If car manufacturers use them from factory, I don't see why I can't use them on my car (with EFI Live). I'm no 02 sensor expert, but I think as long as it's a 4.9 LSU wb, then it's all good. Like, all the WB controller picks up from the sensor is (0-5v) voltage, right?? I don't understand why any 4.9 LSU wideband 02 sensor won't work with any modern wideband controller. It would be like a water/oil temp sensor not being compatible with a gauge....... right???
    Has anyone here tried random wb's with their controller to see if they all work okay? I'm guessing many. Any not work?
    I've read posts here about some wb's not being as accurate as others...
    Has anyone here used a Bosch 17025 / 17123 02 sensor with EFI Live???????? That's what I wanted to know haha..

    Also, I read somewhere that widebands from Innovate are the same shyt you find in late model 1.8L VW's.. and it wouldn't surprise me if other aftermarket 02sensor-related companies do the same.

    What are your thoughts? Anyone using wb's from stock/factory cars?


    My cats are about a foot away from my short headers / engine.. should I mount my wideband like an inch in front of my narrowband and a bit to the side of it (so as not to block the NB...)?

    Okay, I'll just hook up 1 WB. I've already logged my fuel trims with another scanner and the banks are pretty/very similar. I'll go over everything again to see which bank was the leanest..


    Btw Joe, I know the WB will need a controller.... but I want to know if any controller will perfectly work with my Bosch 02's.. and if so, which one.. who's done it before.... Surely I can't be the only one to think of using 4.9 LSU Bosch widebands off factory cars..
    My widebands came off a VE Commodore.. There must be heaps of Aussies with VE's running EFI Live.... did you guys try your stock wb's??? Hmm... can you hook up the stock controller to EFI Live??

    Scarab, I'd rather not buy a kit in order to save around $260. If I can use and get used 02 WB's and controllers for free.. then why would I spend $300+ on a kit? All I'll hopefully need to buy is a cable or 2.

    Also Joe, I have no idea what CL/trims are / stand for.. but I'll remember to disable it.
    Apologies for long post and random thoughts.. I'm in a rush..

  5. #5
    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
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    LSU4.9 and LSU4.2 sensors need controllers (drivers) appropriate to each.

    e.g. Innovate LC-1 drives LSU4.2 sensors, and LC-2 drives LSU4.9 sensors (i.e. the controller requires internal software to work with the LSU type)...

    each controller's manufacturer specs indicate which LSU they are compatible with.


    GM ECM's drive narrowband O2's... VW ECM's drive wideband O2's like the LSU4.2 and LSU4.9

    ( i.e. that's how the ECM's internal software is designed )


    The O2's you got from a Commodore would be NBO2's, right...? They have a 3-pin or 4-pin plug on their pigtail.

    LSU4.2 and LSU4.9 have a 6-pin or 8-pin connector on their pigtail.


    Yes, other people have borrowed VW WBO2's for use with their WB controllers.


    CL = close loop
    trim = long and short term fuel trimming (in CL), you don't want these correcting fueling beneath you (i.e. your wideband will no need for correction).
    Last edited by joecar; October 3rd, 2016 at 10:04 PM.

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    Thanks a lot, Joe.

    The 02 sensors I got today off a VE Commodore are the Bosch 17123's (wideband LSU 4.9, 5 wire...).
    So at this stage it looks like I'll need to buy a LC-2 controller.. unless someone here tells me I'd be able to use a stock VE Commodore (or other car) 02 sensor controller.. Maybe I should give it a go.. maybe it doesn't even have a standalone controller?? Anyone know where it's mounted?

    Oh - closed loop.. okay thanks.


    Btw other cars with the Bosch 17025 wideband 5 wire 02 sensor =
    Chev Cruze 2011-15 1.4L/1.8L/2L NA and T
    Ford Escape 2011-15 1.6L/2L/2.5L/3L NA and T
    Ford Fiesta 2011-15 1L/1.6L NA and T
    Ford Focus 2011-14 2L NA and T
    Honda Accord 2011-15 2L/2.4L/3.5L NA
    Honda Civic 2011-15 1.5L1.8L/2.4L NA
    Honda CR-V 2011-15 2.4L NA
    Honda Odyssey 2011-15 3.5L NA
    Toyota Camry 2011-15 2.5L/3.5L NA
    Toyota Corolla 2011-15 1.8L/2.4L NA
    Toyota RAV4 2011-15 2.5L/3.5L NA

  7. #7
    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
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    What year is that VE Commodore...?

    What engine does it use...?

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    The VE I got the sensors off was a 2006. All I know about the engine is it's a V6. So it's either a 3L SIDI, 3.6L SIDI or 3.6L Alloytec.
    It's still at my work. I can find out exactly what type of engine it is tomorrow if you like.. but I'm guessing Holden use wb's for all their VE engines.

    Also, I took a look at the wiring harness (the engine/trans/loom has been removed and is sitting on a bench nearby the VE) and there doesn't seem to be a wideband controller. I believe the wires from the 02's go straight to the ECM/PCM. So I'm thinking.. do the late model Commodore guys (and others with wb's installed from factory) using EFI Live even need to buy aftermarket wideband sensor controller kits?

  9. #9
    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
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    If the ECM uses a WB rather than a NB, then it can trim fueling in all modes (rather than in PT only with a NB)...

    so yes, in this case you would not really need an external WB, you would use the ECM's trims to correct the airmass/airflow tables.


    I did not know GM was using WB's...

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    Thanks. I think I'm gonna bite the bullet and buy this in a few weeks http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/3844-INNO...3D272394240430 at least I'll have spare wb's..
    It looks like the latest Innovate product and they reckon it has a built-in (to the A/F gauge) "Direct Digital Wideband Controller". Sounds good. Less weight, less cables, less headaches...
    What do you (and others) think of it? Anyone using one?

    And also, going back to my long #4 post, half way down.. is mounting the wideband an inch away from the narrowband okay? The narrowband is mounted 12 o'clock and I'm thinking of mounting the wb around 2 o'clock and an inch closer to my block-huggers (and almost under them).

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