Random flutter in AFR at idle whith logs, Help please lol.

[GMPX]

Yep, that's what happens when you fit long tubes. Closed loop fueling is controlled by what's known as a PID controller (proportional–integral–derivative controller). When you fit long tubes, you need to adjust the derivative part of the controller. Unfortunately, that parameter is not available in EFILive for your OS.

Are these PID controls tables or just single parameters?

EFILive is never going to add any more tables to your OS. They don't care much for older OS's and their focus is shifting away from gas vehicles.

This is something often thrown around on the forum, that EFILive doesn't care about 'x', the reality is that EFILive can't continue to remain in business by focusing on 12 year old controllers (yes the E38 came out 12 years ago).
Many factors (aside from ECM age or fuel type) determine where our R&D time goes, I don't even own a GM car these days but I am not bothering to try to add support for what I drive now, we just follow customer demands and possible market vacancies so we can remain in business. Learnt the lesson many years ago it is impossible to please everyone.

Ill shoot them an email now. Cant hurt to ask I guess. Ill get the bin file somehow if they cant help thanks again man will gey back to this page as soon as I get somewhere.

If anyone can detail what these parameters are to save us some time we can look to add them in, but it won't be over the 50+ OS's the E38/E67 share.

Big thanks to Joe for his assistance so far on this topic.

Cheers,
Ross

[curtisdeville]

Ive been reading and reading and reading and I cant find the exact location just what the "other guys" have to help with it and their location numbers...

#1 [ECM] 12480 - Closed Loop Proportional Base vs. Airflow Mode: This table returns the base proportional % fuel change. Proportional base rate table is the primary amount of fuel needed to drive the closed loop fuel control into oscillation. Proportional fuel acts like an on/off switch to keep the fuel moving around the current O2 Rich/Lean vs. Mode table set point. The values on the Proportional Table add or subtract to the base fuel rate depending on the previous fuel condition (i.e. if rich then switch lean, if lean the switch rich). The amount of fuel to add or subtract increases with the airflow mode and should be based on injector size and % fuel switching needed.

#2 [ECM] 12481 - Closed Loop Proportional Gain vs. O2 Error: This table returns a multiplier value for the increase/decrease of the base rate table. A multiplier value of 1.000 will have no effect on the proportional base rate. If the difference between the current O2 reading and its desired value from table O2 Rich/Lean vs. Mode (the current Fast O2 error) is large the VCM will need to change the proportional fuel a lot. If the error is small, it should change it only a little to continue oscillation without undershoot or overshoot. Undershooting will cause the Closed loop fuel to become sluggish or miss the current O2 Rich/Lean vs. Mode table set point. Overshooting with cause the engine to vary excessively in RPM.

#3 [ECM] 12470 - Closed Loop Integrator Delay vs. Airflow Mode: This table returns the base integrator delay. The integrator is a function of the Slow Filtered O2 Error over time, The integrator handles persistent rich or lean fuel conditions based on the slow O2 error and Rich/Lean vs. Airflow mode. The Base Delay vs. Airflow Mode table is the minimum time in milliseconds an overly rich or lean condition needs to exist before the VCM is allowed to make a fuel correction.

#4 [ECM] 12466 - Closed Loop Mode vs. Airflow: This table defines the Airflow mode the Closed Loop routines use to operate. It controls selection of various gains and delays used to interpret the O2 sensor signals.

[curtisdeville]

Ps I think its amazing how quick you guys replied to me and that you took the time to try and help.

[GMPX]

Yikes, four tables
Oh well, we'll see what we can do.

[curtisdeville]

I may not need all of these. The one that matters the most for the long tube headers is the one that adjusts the time delay between the o2 signal and combustion event because of extra distance of the airflow. Im gonna do some research this morning and see if theres an easier way. I think in the ls1 there is a single adjustment.

[curtisdeville]

"O2 Airflow rate factor = The airflow rate factor represents the transport delay for the exhaust to reach the O2 sensors." Not sure if this is available as a single table for gen iv or not

[statesman]

Are these PID controls tables or just single parameters?

If anyone can detail what these parameters are to save us some time we can look to add them in, but it won't be over the 50+ OS's the E38/E67 share.

These parameters are all tables. They're pretty much the same as the tables available in LS1b calibrations... {B4109}, {B4110}, {B4111}, {B4112}, {B4113}, {B4114}.... but I'm not sure if the E38 has separate tables for idle and off-idle. Of all these will be useful to him, but {B4113} and {B4114} are the ones he really needs.

[statesman]

This is something often thrown around on the forum, that EFILive doesn't care about 'x', the reality is that EFILive can't continue to remain in business by focusing on 12 year old controllers (yes the E38 came out 12 years ago).
Many factors (aside from ECM age or fuel type) determine where our R&D time goes, I don't even own a GM car these days but I am not bothering to try to add support for what I drive now, we just follow customer demands and possible market vacancies so we can remain in business. Learnt the lesson many years ago it is impossible to please everyone.

Hey, I didn't mean what I said to sound nasty.... it's just a fact that you don't really look at older OS's. I understand you have to make business decisions and putting time into older OS's isn't going to make you any money. It's just really unfortunate for the people who end up stranded because they have an OS which doesn't have the parameters necessary for correcting for a basic mod like long tube headers.

[curtisdeville]

Thank you

[joecar]

Is there any chance some of those tables can make it into GenIII 12212156...?