getting pretty frustrated again

[BACKinBLACK]

by the way thanks for all the help...

also is it normal for the sensor to put out an error 8 blink indication if the sensor is reading really rich.

This is what happens, i dont start my car but maybe 3 times a week so the exhaust is pretty cleared out, well if i havent started in a while and i just turn the car on, not start it but turn it on then the blink will indicate and error 8. When i start the car though the light stays on constant (means its working correctly)... is it supposed to throw an error code when it reads that lean?

i will be on vacation as of sat. and wont return til the 17th so that will give me some time to relax and calm my nerves. Hopefully ill have some time to play with it friday before we leave though.

thanks again guys

[Doc]

IOGEAR gu232 USB to Serial Converter, availible at Walmart worked for me. I would start with your original tune that worked better, get the LC-1 to read out correctly with the logworks software (without efi live). Note, realize that the analog and system grounds, green and white wires (as set in the tutorial) are grounded via the vpw connector via the flashscan. The blue, heater ground has to be seperate from them. Sounds like you are almost there man, hang in there. Using the LM programmer software you need to program the cal factors as per the tutorial. Without doing this step the default factors that come from innovate will probably give you the erroneous readings you are getting. Once you have entered the factors in the tutorial and can get the lc-1 to get more reasonable readings with the LogWorks program move on to the EFI Live scanner software. In the "Data" tab look for the ext analog voltage pid. With the LM Programmer program command/output the lc-1 to output in sucessive logs 0v, .5v, 2.5v and 5.0v Using the scan tool Data page check those values and ensure that the readings are fairly close to what is being commanded. Large differences are ground offsets, check wiring, I know, not again... Sounds like you just need to put in the right cal factors, preform a heater cal(turn on without sensor connected to controller) and then a free air cal and you should be on your way. The intial autove tutorial has you richen up your tables for safety purposes but probably not as much as you are describing. Relax, have a nice weekend. Don't rush.

[BACKinBLACK]

thanks doc, my grounds are wired as you describe. Since i dont have the converter yet i just took Deans word that the LC1 came precal'd for efilive and hptuners. dunno. I will have to go see if they have the converter i need tonight.

I have a question, what causes LTFT's? I mean i know why they are there but does the PCM use the 02 sensors to add fuel or does it base the ltft's off of the MAF? im pretty sure that i know that ltft's are how much fuel is added to the VE table correct? so does the maf make them happen or 02's?

The reason i ask is that before i had my wideband i kept adding more fuel to the VE table and it never was able to catch up , not matter how much i added it kept adding 13+ in ltfts, even to the point to where it wouldnt hardly run, but it kept adding it.

[Doc]

From Pappy Helms: Long Term Fuel Trims, LTFTs represent a long-term correction of fuel delivery. A value of 0% indicates that fuel delivery requires no compensation in order to maintain the commanded AFR. A negative LTFT indicates the Fuel System is rich and the PCM is reducing the fuel delivery (decreased injector pulse width). A positive LTFT indicates the Fuel System is lean and the PCM is adding fuel (increasing Inj PW).
The key to your question is the 02s and the MAF are part of the Fuel System. The O2s are merely reporting the end result of what the Fuel System is trying to command. The MAF, Mass Air Flow is reporting the grams of air per second entering the engine. Remember the fire triangle...From Metallica "Gimme Fuel, Gimme Fire, Gimme that which I desire (air)..."When you change the airlid, Bellows, increase Throttle Body size, Heads, cam, headers,etc. you are physically changing the way the motor breathes in and out and the Fuel System's sensors like the MAF's original factory calibrations are no longer valid. The PCM can put up with alot of shinanagins (+/-25%) before a lean or rich code will set, your vehicles performance will undoutably be less than optimal long before that threshold, code. By performing the AutoVe procedure you essentially turn off all the Fuel Systems modifiers, and LTFTs (don't forget to zero LTFTs) and begin with rescaling the VE table(s). The VE tables are essentially predictions. With new phsyical mods that change the way the car breathes in and out-you need to change these base "predictions." Getting the VE table(s) to ~ +/-1 to 2% is generally accepted as good to go. Once you have the VE in line you can if you like bring the MAF back online and rescale it-some prefer to remain in Speed Density. There are many, many threads that go into far greater detail than this quick explanation. I tried to reread this before posting...if any senior members catch any misstatements please fire away, I learn something everyday from this forum.

[BACKinBLACK]

cool.... I got some good news finally!!!!!!!!!1 thank god

anyways, i finally found a converter so i got to checkout the LC1 situation tonight. The LC1 was not preprogrammed correctly and was way off. I changed to the needed values and that fixed that problem. I did a little auto VE'ing and the thing is working and running a lot better.

My next question is this. I have the personal addition of EFILIVE, all the latest software downloads and everything, so when i get done autoVE'ing but i want to Leave the Car mafless but in closed loop (semi, i believe) Do i follow the last section in the AutoVe tutorial , the "return to closed loop speed density"??
It says "do not perform this section if you are running an EFilive custom operating system, V3 (2/3 bar support) or later"

and then it lists a whole bunch of steps.

I am not tunnin a C.O.S. but i do have V3 i believe, so do i follow this section or not?

I guess that question may seem dumb to you, it does to me too. Ive come up with different conclusions each time i think about it so i will find out from the experts.
Thanks
Trevor

[Tordne]

cool.... I got some good news finally!!!!!!!!!1 thank god

anyways, i finally found a converter so i got to checkout the LC1 situation tonight. The LC1 was not preprogrammed correctly and was way off. I changed to the needed values and that fixed that problem. I did a little auto VE'ing and the thing is working and running a lot better.

My next question is this. I have the personal addition of EFILIVE, all the latest software downloads and everything, so when i get done autoVE'ing but i want to Leave the Car mafless but in closed loop (semi, i believe) Do i follow the last section in the AutoVe tutorial , the "return to closed loop speed density"??
It says "do not perform this section if you are running an EFilive custom operating system, V3 (2/3 bar support) or later"

and then it lists a whole bunch of steps.

I am not tunnin a C.O.S. but i do have V3 i believe, so do i follow this section or not?

I guess that question may seem dumb to you, it does to me too. Ive come up with different conclusions each time i think about it so i will find out from the experts.
Thanks
Trevor

If you are not running a EFILive Custom OS (which would require Commercial or Workshop editions) then I guess you can probably run through that section no worries.

You will be returning to Closed Loop, only COS3 has the Semi-Open Loop. Basically what you will be doing is turning on the fuel trimming and learning again.

You also don;t "need" to return to Closed Loop... I have been running MAFless (Speed Density) for about a year and a half now, but always in Open Loop.

Cheers,