Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 14

Thread: Frustrated, confused and out $240

  1. #1
    Lifetime Member SSpdDmon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1,558

    Default Frustrated, confused and out $240

    Well, the morning started off when I missed my alarm. So I run out the door, laptop in hand, hop in my friend's car and make my way over to the dyno. Today, we were going to button up his tune along with another friend.

    The first one up was an '00 A4 T/A with a freshly installed Torquer v.2 courtesy of Texas Speed. I had my LC1 in the other car, so we decided to use the shop's tail sniffer to make sure everything was ok (we stuck this in the true duals with a 3-foot tube). First run, it came up a whole AFR point leaner on their sniffer than my LC1 (which I recalibrate fairly frequently and matches the NBO2's in closed loop fairly well) and only made about 350 to the tire through the unlocked converter. I figured we'd trust that AFR reading and fattened up the fuel curve a tad before the next pull. We got 5 more hp. So, maybe a little more spark? I added in a degree and didn't see any better results. Disappointed, I advised my friend that there's not much use in adding in more spark if it won't make more power. So, we did one final run with the converter locked and gained 17 hp (373rwhp was the final number). The guy running the dyno suggested he look at his plugs while we loaded up the next car. (We later found the plugs had hair-line cracks and fine specs of metal - we guessed that was from when he hit the nitrous on the stock cam).

    While he was going after his plugs, we loaded up the '99 SS A4 with the same cam plus a set of Patriot Stage 2 heads that were only shaved .006. His first pull was even lower than the T/A's first pull. Again, the shops sniffer read 13.6~14.0. This was through cats. But, my LC1 said all was well. So, I tried fattening up the fuel curve again for this car. Now, my LC1 was reading high 11's on the collector bung while the shop's sniffer looked more in line with where we wanted to be. There was a 2hp difference between the pulls (which I attribute to statistical error). Ok, so after several pulls with a little more timing, we realize we're not getting anywhere. So, I go back to the original fueling based on the LC1. More timing didn't help, so we thought less timing might help given it's a H/C car. Nothing. We ended up within 10hp of where we started after about 8 pulls and I was getting nervous about running the car too much on the dyno. We had fans and all, but still...

    Then, I notice in the logs timing was identicle for EVERY run!!! I mean, for those 8 runs I had the high/low octane tables as high as 32* and as low as 18* in the WOT throttle cells and every run started off at 23* near 5,000rpm and ended at 26* when I shut down at 6,600rpm. I franticly searched through every spark table/adder and there was nothing that matched the operating ranges we were in to add or reduce timing. My next thought was "Optimal timing." I changed this and triple checked the high/low octane tables before making another pull. Still, the car started at 23* and ended at 26*. AAAAAAGGGGGGHHHHHH! Since we were there and strapped down, I made one final pull to give him some locked torque converter numbers. They were within 1hp and 8ft/lbs of the other non-H/C car! I was soooooo pissed! I not only didn't get my friend's cars where they need to be, I helped them blow $240 of their hard earned money!

    Now, I need to know what went wrong. I have logs. I have a few saved tunes (but I started to get frustrated and made minor changes to the existing tune). I wish I would have saved each tune from the SS, but time was running out and I wasn't thinking. Is there a reason why my timing changes wouldn't take on the '99? Looking over the logs, it seems the timing changes only half took on the '00 as well.

    I know the low rwhp numbers might be attributed to the weather (it was kinda muggy and MAP was only hitting 94kPa when it usually is 96~97kPa...intake temps were in the 80's...ECT's were in the 190~200's). But, why would these cars be this far down on power on a DynoJet?!?!? I need help as my friends are staring at me like they want answers!!!!

    BTW - Both cars run on OS09381344 and I'm using Personal Scan&Tune V7.3.1 (Build 380).
    Last edited by SSpdDmon; July 3rd, 2006 at 07:52 AM.

  2. #2
    EFILive Reseller wait4me's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    1,348

    Default

    you need to download the latest version of software. that version is VERY VERY old. As for the missing timing? Im not sure what that could be... Maybe it was in some kind of safety mode...

  3. #3
    EFILive Reseller ringram's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    1,411

    Default

    IAT and/or ECT spark mod tables?
    Get EFILive in europe (http://www.efilive.eu).
    2007 Escalade ESV L92 6.2L VVT.
    2014 VF SV LS3 Maloo.

  4. #4
    Lifetime Member SSpdDmon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1,558

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wait4me
    you need to download the latest version of software. that version is VERY VERY old. As for the missing timing? Im not sure what that could be... Maybe it was in some kind of safety mode...
    I understand it's an older version. But, I shouldn't have had this problem now or four months ago when I downloaded it from the EFI website.

    Quote Originally Posted by ringram
    IAT and/or ECT spark mod tables?
    No adders in the IAT table...only takers. ECT has added spark, but not for 190~200* ECT's. I went through all of the spark tables and couldn't find anything.


    **Would it have anything to do with the whole partial flash vs. a full re-write? A local guy here who used to tune out in CO said that sometimes the computer won't take the change without a full re-write. Kinda sucks if it's true, 'cause full re-writes are more risky (less recoverable), right? Aside from the fact that I have to shell out another chunk of $$$ for something I should be able to control now...
    Last edited by SSpdDmon; July 3rd, 2006 at 04:37 PM.

  5. #5
    EFILive Reseller wait4me's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    1,348

    Default

    IT is full of crap if he says the tune wont take a change on a partial write.

    I didnt say EFILive software had a flaw in it that didnt update the spark segment when you made a change..

    I just said you needed to download the newest version of software, as it has MANY NEW cool features since that release several months back.
    "If you can leave a black mark on the pavement, from the exit of one corner to the braking point of the next one, you have enough horsepower."

  6. #6
    Lifetime Member limited cv8r's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    567

    Question

    are you running in SD or using MAF still. If you are in SD are you applying your spark adjustments to the right table. e.g high spark instead of low?

  7. #7
    Lifetime Member SSpdDmon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1,558

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wait4me
    IT is full of crap if he says the tune wont take a change on a partial write.

    I didnt say EFILive software had a flaw in it that didnt update the spark segment when you made a change..

    I just said you needed to download the newest version of software, as it has MANY NEW cool features since that release several months back.
    I understand there are new features Jes. I just haven't gotten around to hooking up that laptop to the high speed connection to update the software (and make sure I don't loose my log MAPs, PID modifications, etc.). If there's not a problem with the software though, why wouldn't it take the spark adjustment. I had the whole WOT area (.72 grams/cyl+ and 4800rpm+) where we were tuning set to 18* across the board as well as 28* across the board. Every time, the spark started at 23* and went up a half a degree until it hit 26*. If it was an adder table, we would have seen a shift in the timing with the changes I made that would have looked like it was always "x" degrees of timing more or less than what I set. I never saw that. It was always the steady increase.

    Quote Originally Posted by limited cv8r
    are you running in SD or using MAF still. If you are in SD are you applying your spark adjustments to the right table. e.g high spark instead of low?
    He's running the MAF. I made the changes to both spark tables anyway just to eliminate the scaler incase we hit KR.

  8. #8
    Lifetime Member limited cv8r's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    567

    Default

    just offering a sugestion, if you are using a custom OS are the settings {A0000} Forced Octane Scaler
    {A0001} Forced Octane Scaler Percentage
    {A0002} Octane Scaler Limiter
    set correctly.

  9. #9
    EFILive Reseller ringram's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    1,411

    Default

    Yep good point, make sure you arnt falling to low ocatne table and aspark is 100% all the time as cv8r says.
    Get EFILive in europe (http://www.efilive.eu).
    2007 Escalade ESV L92 6.2L VVT.
    2014 VF SV LS3 Maloo.

  10. #10
    Lifetime Member GMPX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    13,148

    Default

    SSpdDmon said he was running O.S 09381344 which has no spark scaler fixed control.
    What was the minimum timing table set to (to figure out the lower point).
    Really, the only way to see where the timing was going was to use the DMA spark PID's, you then see the 'base' spark as derived from the high/low/scaler combo, then you can see all the other contributors to the final timing value. Been there before trying to find 'missing' timing values, it usually turns out to be a torque table.

    I'm sorry to hear you are out of pocket for the dyno time, but just referring back to the comment about needing to full flash, that is total rubbish.

    Cheers,
    Ross
    I no longer monitor the forum, please either post your question or create a support ticket.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Bit confused, some help?
    By hyper24 in forum General (Petrol, Gas, Ethanol)
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: August 3rd, 2009, 07:41 PM
  2. Confused and Frustrated
    By petestoy in forum Duramax 06 LLY / 06+ LBZ & LMM
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: January 22nd, 2008, 03:26 PM
  3. Confused
    By hdmax in forum General (Diesel)
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: October 21st, 2006, 07:27 AM
  4. getting pretty frustrated again
    By BACKinBLACK in forum General (Petrol, Gas, Ethanol)
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: July 6th, 2006, 02:40 PM
  5. OK, Getting frustrated... Damn Cold Idle!
    By eboggs_jkvl in forum General (Petrol, Gas, Ethanol)
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: November 28th, 2005, 01:13 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •