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Thread: struggling newbie needs direction

  1. #31
    Member jeeper's Avatar
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    I'd be happy to if I knew how. I'm still trying to learn how this all interacts and thus is why I'm struggling with this so much I guess.

    Until I figure out how to make the map can I just look at the Data tab and see the values from the AEM?
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    2002 Duramax
    project Jeep Wrangler to CJ conversion with a LS engine and 6L80e transmission underway

  2. #32
    Member jeeper's Avatar
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    So I found a calc_pids.txt in another forum that has a completely different calculation for BEN. I'm wondering if I'm supposed to be dividing instead of multiplying in my equation?


    HTML Code:
    # ==============================================================================
    # File details
    # ------------
    #
    # This section defines various details about the file format.
    *FILE
    #Parameter  Value            Description
    #---------- ---------------- ---------------------------------------------------
    VERSION     7.1.1            File version
    DECSEP      .                Decimal separator used in this file
     
    # ==============================================================================
    # Units
    # -------------------
    # See sae_generic.txt for more information on the *UNITS section
    *UNITS
    #Code     System     Abbr     Description
    #-------- ---------- -------- -------------------------------------------------------------
    MPG       Imperial   MPG      "Miles Per Gallon"
    # ==============================================================================
    # Add slot definitions here
    # --------------------------------   ({SAE.VSS.mph})/({GM.INJFLOW.lbpm} *{GM.IBPW1}* {SAE.RPM} * 2 / 6250 )"
    # See sae_generic.txt for more information on "SLOT" formats
    #
    #Units             Low          High      Fmt  Expression
    #------------ ------------- ------------- ---- --------------------------------------------------------------
    # MPG
    *CLC-00-001
    MPG             0.00            99.99      .1   "{SAE.VSS.mph}/({GM.INJFLOW.lbpm} * {GM.IBPW1} * {SAE.RPM} * 4 / 6250 )"
    # AEM Ext Input 1
    *CLC-00-002
    V                  0.0           5.0       .1  "{EXT.AD1}"
    AFR               10.0          18.5       .1  "{EXT.AD1}*1.7+10"
    # BEN AEM 1
    *CLC-00-003
    factor             0.0           2.0       .1  "{CALC.AFR_AEM_1.AFR}/{GM.AFR}"
    # AEM Ext Input 2
    *CLC-00-004
    V                  0.0           5.0       .1  "{EXT.AD2}"
    AFR               10.0          18.5       .1  "{EXT.AD2}*1.7+10"
    # BEN AEM 2
    *CLC-00-005
    factor             0.0           2.0       .1  "{CALC.AFR_AEM_2.AFR}/{GM.AFR}"
     
    # ==============================================================================
    *PRN - Parameter Reference Numbers
    # --------------------------------
    # See sae_generic.txt for more information on the *PRN section
    #
    #Code                      PRN  SLOT         Units            System           Description
    #------------------------- ---- ------------ ---------------- ---------------- ------------------------------------------
    CALC.MPG                   F001 CLC-00-001   MPG              Fuel             "Miles Per Gallon"
    CALC.AFR_AEM_1             F002 CLC-00-002   AFR              O2-Wide          "AEM Wideband - Input 1"
    CALC.BEN_AEM_1             F003 CLC-00-003   factor           O2-Wide          "Base Efficiency Numerator - AEM 1"
    CALC.AFR_AEM_2             F004 CLC-00-004   AFR              O2-Wide          "AEM Wideband - Input 2"
    CALC.BEN_AEM_2             F005 CLC-00-005   factor           O2-Wide          "Base Efficiency Numerator - AEM 2"
    2002 Duramax
    project Jeep Wrangler to CJ conversion with a LS engine and 6L80e transmission underway

  3. #33
    Member jeeper's Avatar
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    I think I may have it. I'll report back tomorrow with details. Otherwise I'll report back in frustration...
    2002 Duramax
    project Jeep Wrangler to CJ conversion with a LS engine and 6L80e transmission underway

  4. #34
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    Good! Keep it up!

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

  5. #35
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    So time for another update.

    I still don't really "understand" what I'm doing but I hope I'm getting closer to that.

    I played around quite a bit yesterday and had many unsuccessful attempts. I left the lines in the file to help me remember what I had tried already. I'd do some reading and come back and make another attempt. Here is a sample of how I modified the calc_pids.txt file:


    #BEN 0.5 1.5 .3 "({EXT.AD1}*0.1621+0.4990)*{GM.EQIVRATIO}"
    #BEN 0.5 1.5 .3 "({CALC.AEM.EQR}*{GM.EQIVRATIO})"
    #BEN 0.5 1.5 .3 "({CALC.AEM.EQR}/{GM.EQIVRATIO})"
    BEN 0.0 2.0 .3 "({CALC.AEM.AFR}/{GM.AFR})"
    #BEN 0.5 1.5 .3 "({EXT.AD1}*0.1621+0.4990)/{GM.EQIVRATIO}"
    #BEN 0.5 1.5 .3 "({GM.EQIVRATIO}/{CALC.AEM.AFR})"


    For some reason copy and paste truncates the text but you get the idea.

    In the end what I think may have been happening was the same numbers were being used in two equations and I was getting the sum of both equations? I'm not really sure because the light hasn't come on yet for me and I'm making guesses still. I find it very difficult to troubleshoot when I don't really know what to look for...

    I finally decided I would "start over" and replace my calc_pids.txt with this one.

    It was as close as I could find and I was fairly sure the parameters for that AEM matched mine so I went for it.

    I ended up making some changes to my pid selections in the scan tool and viola. The numbers coming back to the map looked more reasonable.

    I then had to modify my filter because it was (apparently) based on a pid I was no longer using. I applied the transient filter and low count filter and did a copy and fill with labels. I opened the v7.5 tune tool and did a paste and multiply with labels. I did this with both maps.

    I smoothed the tables and renamed the tune and saved as a new tune. I also turned closed loop back on. I did a cal flash and took it for a drive. It ran okay but not really any better than before. In fact it was much more lean than before.

    I took it out again this morning and did a log. I reset the LTFT before I started. I drove my dog to the park for a swim and took the long way. It ran fine on my way there. Maybe 15 minutes worth of drive on my way there. I looked at the map and was a little disappointed I wasn't seeing zeros. I saved the log and shut down everything..

    I let my dog run off some energy and take a swim in the river for a while. Maybe 20 minutes later I got back in and fired up my computer and started the engine. It wouldn't idle. If I didn't apply throttle it would stall out. This is the first time since I started trying to tune where the engine would just stop running altogether. I decided I'd just flash it back to a pre-tune and drive home. It runs great on that tune.

    Sorry for the long read but that's where I'm at this morning.
    2002 Duramax
    project Jeep Wrangler to CJ conversion with a LS engine and 6L80e transmission underway

  6. #36
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    Get the vehicle speed sensor hooked up to the PCM.

  7. #37
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    Time for another update and some more questions.

    So I will start out by admitting I still don't know much about EFI but I have learned some things that have helped. First off I was not aware that I wasn't ready to even try tuning when I did. I wasn't even aware that my engine was running extremely lean. I knew it was lean but didn't realize it was dangerously lean. It would be around 18+ AFR pretty consistently during acceleration and even WOT.

    Because I was so green I didn't know there was so much I didn't know. I'm still green but I have advanced slightly I think.

    What I discovered so far is my lean condition was likely self induced. I think (but still need to verify) that when I changed the OS to 12212156 I didn't change all the needed parameters within that OS to allow proper fueling. Nothing I did seemed to allow the engine to run rich. I ended up reflashing the PCM with the stock OS 09381344 and removing VATS and changing some torque management settings. It is running really well now. More importantly it doesn't run lean. It idles great and seems to have good power under load.

    So on to the questions.

    I keep being told I need a speed sensor but I don't understand why at this point. It seems the Jeep is running and driving just fine without one. It doesn't appear to need to know that I am moving. I can't imagine what benefit I'll get from adding it. So I need to ask, why do I need one?

    Also I keep reading I need a manual transmission specific OS. I've spent several hours driving this Jeep at this point with the stock PCM that was originally controlling an automatic transmission truck. All I have done is disable torque management in several places and it seems to be running just fine. So why do I need a manual transmission OS? What will it do better that I am missing?
    2002 Duramax
    project Jeep Wrangler to CJ conversion with a LS engine and 6L80e transmission underway

  8. #38
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    When you are running in ve mode, vacuum leaks don't really affect your resulting VE table as by nature it accounts for those leaks.

    The purpose of the speed sensor is so that the ECM can run correctly between idle mode and non idle mode and other situations, but I agree that it may not be needed if you simplify your calibration.
    "All that is needed for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing..."

  9. #39
    Member jeeper's Avatar
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    I just wanted to say thanks to everyone who helped me get this going. It has been running beautifully for a while now. In fact I had an offer to buy the vehicle so I ended up selling it. Time to start on my next project I guess.
    2002 Duramax
    project Jeep Wrangler to CJ conversion with a LS engine and 6L80e transmission underway

  10. #40
    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
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    I just saw this thread and I'm reading thru it... those calc pids could probably be simplified/reduced down.

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