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Thread: OK, now what?

  1. #1
    Lifetime Member SSpdDmon's Avatar
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    Default OK, now what?

    http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=2897

    I d/l'ed the newest version of the software and Flashscan drivers. Next, I loaded a stock Z06 high octane, low octane and base spark tables into my friends '99. The minor changes to the idle and light throttle areas were adjusted for in the new table so his cam would idle without surging. Like before, these changes took. Then, we went out and I logged the base DMA and run DMA spark PIDs. According to the "more info" feature, the base DMA is what comes from the high/low octane tables or base spark tables.....and the run DMA is the commanded spark once all of the modifiers have been added/subtracted. At WOT, a stock Z06 table commands 21.99* spark advance. While we were logging WOT, I saw .5*~1.5* more timing than the 21.99* I entered in the table. Also, the base DMA matched the run DMA, which further proves there were no spark modifiers affecting the timing at WOT. Why won't this car run the timing I'm telling it to? The only positive modifier I did see was in the XMSN(?) DMA I think. My understanding is this table comes from a torque management related table. Any idea where to look for this? I used the search function and found nothing. Why would torque management ADD timing? His trans abuse is disabled...he just has the factory torque management settings for the upshifts and my issue with the timing is way before the trans even needs to shift.


    This is beyond frustrating!!! ME >> << Timing gremlin

  2. #2
    EFILive Crew Site Admin Tordne's Avatar
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    Email me the tune and the log if you want and I'll take a look...
    Andrew
    EFILive Crew


  3. #3
    Lifetime Member GMPX's Avatar
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    One of the things to check is to ensure your logging speeds are keeping up, make sure you have less than 24 channels of PID data or things are going to slow down to the point where the spark values might end up a little too far behind an RPM update etc.
    Also, don't forget the table interpolation, the base DMA value is what was retuned from the High/Low tables. However that leaves a few variables, such as what the octane scaler was at for starters.
    Just because the table has 23.0 degrees entered at 2000RPM / 0.56g/gyl does not mean the base DMA PID should show 23.0 degrees, the values in the surrounding cells will affect the DMA PID value too. For example -
    At 2000RPM / 0.56g/gyl the table = 23.0
    At 2000RPM / 0.60g/gyl the table = 25.0
    Between 0.56 and 0.60g/cyl you will see anywhere between 23 and 25 degrees of timing, just keep that in mind when looking for 0.5 degree differences in what the tables show.

    To really prove the point, you need to flatten the entire timing table in the problem area so every cell is say 20.0, then relog the base and other DMA PID's.

    Cheers,
    Ross
    I no longer monitor the forum, please either post your question or create a support ticket.

  4. #4
    Lifetime Member SSpdDmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMPX
    One of the things to check is to ensure your logging speeds are keeping up, make sure you have less than 24 channels of PID data or things are going to slow down to the point where the spark values might end up a little too far behind an RPM update etc.
    Also, don't forget the table interpolation, the base DMA value is what was retuned from the High/Low tables. However that leaves a few variables, such as what the octane scaler was at for starters.
    Just because the table has 23.0 degrees entered at 2000RPM / 0.56g/gyl does not mean the base DMA PID should show 23.0 degrees, the values in the surrounding cells will affect the DMA PID value too. For example -
    At 2000RPM / 0.56g/gyl the table = 23.0
    At 2000RPM / 0.60g/gyl the table = 25.0
    Between 0.56 and 0.60g/cyl you will see anywhere between 23 and 25 degrees of timing, just keep that in mind when looking for 0.5 degree differences in what the tables show.

    To really prove the point, you need to flatten the entire timing table in the problem area so every cell is say 20.0, then relog the base and other DMA PID's.

    Cheers,
    Ross
    Ok....but the problem is, at WOT he's at .84~.88 grams/cyl. Everything in the table from ~4400 rpm is 21.99 in the high octane. So, it shouldn't be more than this - especially since the scaler would only lower it if it was favoring the low octane table. Take a look at a stock Z06 spark table when you get a minute (I used 2004) and you'll see what I mean. Every cell is 21.99. I'm still over a degree higher under WOT. We are logging 24 channels or less though...so I feel the data I'm logging is fairly accurate. Will try to post tune and log tonight...

  5. #5
    Lifetime Member GMPX's Avatar
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    I see what you are saying looking at the Z06 table, will wait for the log & tune.

    Cheers,
    Ross
    I no longer monitor the forum, please either post your question or create a support ticket.

  6. #6
    Lifetime Member McRat's Avatar
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    Yep, a stock Z06 is just 22 deg across the top at WOT. This is not optimum for normal LS1 engines though. You will lose power.

    Seems I've seen 23 sometimes in the past, but never really worried about it. Trust me, one or two degrees is not going to have a significant effect at 22 deg. If you go past 24 deg on a stock LS6, you are going to drop power slowly.
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  7. #7
    Lifetime Member SSpdDmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMPX
    I see what you are saying looking at the Z06 table, will wait for the log & tune.

    Cheers,
    Ross
    I uploaded the current tune, the spark only log from the other night (same operating conditions as dyno), and one of the dyno logs. All of the dyno logs were virtually identicle no matter what changes were made to the high/low octane table. please...
    Attached Files Attached Files

  8. #8
    Lifetime Member SSpdDmon's Avatar
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    ???

  9. #9
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    that zip file doesn't have any valid EFILive files in it.
    2001 Arctic White Pontiac Firebird Formula M6
    LME 408, AFR small bore 225s, TSP 248/254 .622/.612 114+2 cam, FAST 90mm intake/NW 90mm TB, TR 1 3/4" headers, SLP Dual/Dual catback, Spec 3i clutch, 3.73 Motive Gears, EFILive Custom OS 5

  10. #10
    Lifetime Member SSpdDmon's Avatar
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    Hmmm...used WinZip. I'll giver 'er another go tomorrow...damn.

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