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Thread: Scanning 'unsupported' vehicles

  1. #1
    Lifetime Member Cougar281's Avatar
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    Default Scanning 'unsupported' vehicles

    So this may be a dumb question, but is there any way for EFILive to be able to scan vehicles/manufacturers that aren't supported using generic/SAE PIDs? For example, a 2012 Dodge caravan with the 3.7L v6. I know that Palmers Scan XL, although it does not support Chrysler at all (It's a Ford & GM tool), it CAN connect to the van's ECM and pull data (using my GM MDI2 no less!) - but ONLY generic data - it can't do any enhanced stuff with Chrysler vehicles - which is fine. The problem with it, and it may be that I'm just missing something, but in trying to scan/log the O2 Sensor voltages, there didn't seem to be a way to adjust the scale, so it was basically 0 volt or 1 volt, with no in between, so if it was less than .5, it read 0 and if it was over, it read 1 (At least I assume that - the chart looked like that was the case). EFILive's scan/BBL datalogging is probably one of the best I've used, and it would be really nice to be able to leverage that elsewhere. I have AutoEnginuity, and frankly, it sucks. I was able to log some of the data I wanted to, but trying to play it back has been a challenge - with only four O2 sensor voltage PIDs logged, every time I try to load the log file with all four selected, it crashes. It'll load with only two, but it's clunky, to say the least. And don't get me started on their VW/Audi 'support'.

    If that's currently not possible, any chance that might be able to become a reality? I'm no programming expert, but I'd think that as long as we're talking about a communication protocol that the V2/V3 hardware supported (such as CAN), it shouldn't be too hard to have a 'generic' controller with generic/SAE PIDs that should, in theory, be the same across all manufacturers.

  2. #2
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    Try it. I am sure it can on generic SAE PIDs. I know i have done this in the past but not sure lately.
    "All that is needed for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing..."

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    Lifetime Member Cougar281's Avatar
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    Well, I did and it didn't work - what I do not know is if it didn't work because I had to select a specific GM ECM, thus it was looking for something specific to that ECM and failing for that reason, or if it failed because it simply cant/won't work.

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    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
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    Are you using V7 or V8 EFILive software?

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    Lifetime Member Cougar281's Avatar
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    I used the V8 software to send a small PID list to my V2 to scan. I also tried using the V7 Scan tool, as well as the V8 scan tool, but to be honest, I don't have a lot of faith in the V8 tool either way. I got it to scan my LBZ ONCE, but other than that one time, it sat for an entire 15 or so mile trip 'spinning it's wheels' after I 'started recording', so not sure what the story was there. Like I said, I don't know if the issue here is that the V2/EFILive simply can't do it or if it's that it's looking for something 'GM Specific' that's causing it to fail. Since the van uses CAN, and ScanXL could pull data, despite being GM/Ford only per their support, it seems like it's more likely the latter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cougar281 View Post
    So this may be a dumb question, but is there any way for EFILive to be able to scan vehicles/manufacturers that aren't supported using generic/SAE PIDs? For example, a 2012 Dodge caravan with the 3.7L v6. I know that Palmers Scan XL, although it does not support Chrysler at all (It's a Ford & GM tool), it CAN connect to the van's ECM and pull data (using my GM MDI2 no less!) - but ONLY generic data - it can't do any enhanced stuff with Chrysler vehicles - which is fine. The problem with it, and it may be that I'm just missing something, but in trying to scan/log the O2 Sensor voltages, there didn't seem to be a way to adjust the scale, so it was basically 0 volt or 1 volt, with no in between, so if it was less than .5, it read 0 and if it was over, it read 1 (At least I assume that - the chart looked like that was the case). EFILive's scan/BBL datalogging is probably one of the best I've used, and it would be really nice to be able to leverage that elsewhere. I have AutoEnginuity, and frankly, it sucks. I was able to log some of the data I wanted to, but trying to play it back has been a challenge - with only four O2 sensor voltage PIDs logged, every time I try to load the log file with all four selected, it crashes. It'll load with only two, but it's clunky, to say the least. And don't get me started on their VW/Audi 'support'.

    If that's currently not possible, any chance that might be able to become a reality? I'm no programming expert, but I'd think that as long as we're talking about a communication protocol that the V2/V3 hardware supported (such as CAN), it shouldn't be too hard to have a 'generic' controller with generic/SAE PIDs that should, in theory, be the same across all manufacturers.
    If you have the GM MDI
    The mopar Witech 2 Website says it supports J2539 Pass Throughs. I'm not sure what a single use subscription is. I know GM GDS was like $50.00 for three days when I used it last year.

  7. #7
    Lifetime Member Cougar281's Avatar
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    Well, yes, that would 'work', but I'm looking for a way to leverage tools I have better, rather than spending more money each time I need to do a 'one-off'. If EFILive was able to support scanning generic PIDs off 'unknown' controllers the way ScanXL seems to, that would be awesome. I would think it wouldn't be too hard - within reason - For example, while EFILive supports single wire J1850VPW used in GM (obviously, lol), it quite possibly doesn't have the hardware connections to support the two wire J1850PWM. But in theory, anything CAN-based should work. An example of why I suspect there may be some sort of check involved that causes generic PIDs to fail on unsupported modules is in the V8 tool, I tried to validate T87A PIDs against a T93 TCM - I BELIEVE in v7, in years past (I didn't try it this time), it would just try to validate the PIDs, not actually check the controller, but with v8, it was like 'This is NOT a T87A - NOT doing it'. If not for that check, I suspect it's likely many, if not all of the T87A PIDs would have validated properly against the T93 TCM.

    I may just have to buy ScanXL, which wouldn't be HORRIBLE... But in reality, I'd only buy it if the PIDs can be rescaled to be more useful, such as in the O2 sensor case.

    Edit: I should say I also have AutoEnginuity, but I.... 'Strongly dislike' it. I bought it to work on the VW Jetta my wife had at the time, and by the time I realized how bad it sucked for that, it was too late to return it. Ended up having to buy VCDS to work on that car. There's no reason for me to buy their GM enhancement, and the Chrysler isn't much better than VW. And the application crashes any time I tried to open a log with 'just' four O2 sensor voltage streams. AE is one of those purchases that if I could go back in time and say 'DON'T DO IT', I would.

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    I understand what you are trying to do. Would be nice if the V2 or V3 could be used as a generic scan tool to log data, clear codes, check freeze frame data, and all the other standard SAE OBDII features. And would be great if it also could be used as a J2534 device with TIS/Techline, Mopar Witech etc. But I think those would have to be added cost features you enable to make it worth EFILive's time to develop, validate and support those features.

    One cheap option is any of the bluetooth OBDII interfaces and the Torque app (pay the ~$5 for the pro version). I have had very good luck with even the $10 alibaba/amazon bluetooth OBDII interfaces (bought a bunch of them, tested them and gave them away as gifts).

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