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Thread: Is this Motron 60 information worth anything?

  1. #1

    Default Is this Motron 60 information worth anything?

    Found this on another site. Is it worth anything in better understanding the 60 lb'ers?

    information spec sheet on the Mototron 60# injectors:

    Calibration Information:
    Static Flow 10.8g/s @ 600KPa
    Impedance 12 Ohms (High)
    Gain= .110ms/mg
    Offset= .055ms
    Turn On Time= 1.14ms @ 14VDc
    Turn Off Time= .85ms @ 600KPa


    Howard

    www.redline-motorsports.net

    1-954-703-5560

    2006 ZO6 895/866 with APS TT
    2010 SSRS Camaro HTR-900TT (798/801)
    2011 HTR-850R Camaro
    2012 ZL1 Auto (10.33@135 MPH) Video Here!

  2. #2
    Unknown Zone TAQuickness's Avatar
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    I've not yet worked with the Motrons, but the "Turn On Time= 1.14ms @ 14VDc" is eye catching to me. I'm assuming that you would have a difficult time controlling the injector as your commanded pulse widths approach this time.

  3. #3

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    Food for thought I figured! It seems like obtaining info like this is always a problem with injectors. I believe a lot of tuning control could be had if we knew more about the injector.

    The information I posted seemed like it could shed some light on the offset table that seems to be very mistood...

    Howard

    www.redline-motorsports.net

    1-954-703-5560

    2006 ZO6 895/866 with APS TT
    2010 SSRS Camaro HTR-900TT (798/801)
    2011 HTR-850R Camaro
    2012 ZL1 Auto (10.33@135 MPH) Video Here!

  4. #4
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    Howard, it's funny you bring up that information -- I too, wondered what the significance was in the last few weeks as I've looked at my injector tables, and also "think" it should be accounted for somehow in the offset tables. I just don't know how.

    Don't the offset tables allow you to specify values that help reduce the impact of turn-on and turn-off times? So if the PCM knows the turn-on time is 1.14ms at a given set of conditions, it should try to open the injector earlier to account for this turn-on time -- right?

  5. #5
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    two questions and one experiment:
    1. is IPW we log commanded or effective? can we log components of it, just like we can with spark advance/retard?
    2. stock value for short pulse is ~4ms. stock sized injectors operate at much higher IPW's because they're small. with much larger injectors, wouldn't it make sense to kick that value down, or is that more of a universal 'under 4ms all injectors misbehave' fact?

    I would like to see what happens if we zero out all the modifiers for IPW, and turn off the short pulse modifiers as well. wouldn't this be the situation where we could see how low can given injectors really go? even if it runs rough, it would give us an idea if the usual ~1.7-1.8ms is all we're gonna see, or can we go lower. if we could do this while at the same time measuring fuel pressure, then we would know exactly how much fuel is going in, right?

  6. #6

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    Sounds logical to me. This really should be done on a well running stock engine car so the information is not skewed by conditions that are not known. We are assuming that the OEM configuration would be the base starting point.

    www.redline-motorsports.net

    1-954-703-5560

    2006 ZO6 895/866 with APS TT
    2010 SSRS Camaro HTR-900TT (798/801)
    2011 HTR-850R Camaro
    2012 ZL1 Auto (10.33@135 MPH) Video Here!

  7. #7
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    I left my short pulse setting to 4ms, because it appeared that the real magic happened inside of default and minimum pulsewidth tables. Or did I misread something?

    I dropped the default and minimum from 1.x ms to .6 ms all the way up to 3k, as an experiment, and it seemed to help low rpm drivability quite a bit. There's no science to .6ms, I just wanted to get far enough below 1.x ms that I could tell if there was a difference yet not so far below it that my injectors would no longer be able to open and close properly given the open and close time (which sounds like around a 2ms round trip just to get it to open and close and not squirt any fuel).

  8. #8
    EFILive Crew Site Admin Tordne's Avatar
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    Did you find that your pulse widths actually changed though as a result of doing that?
    Andrew
    EFILive Crew


  9. #9
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    I did see some very, very short pulses, but the average was roughly the same. I too questioned whether or not my changes had any real effect, but the change in drivability was noticable.

    Is it possible that we need an IPW DMA instead of reading from the PID? I thought the idea behind DMAs was to provide faster updates than a traditional PID could, right? I'm just wondering if there's more than meets the eye behind IPW...

  10. #10
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    Unless I am looking @ it wrong the offset seems to match the numbers in B3702 for a stock 02 TA once the ECT gets above 56*C. Please correct me if I am wrong.

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