Power Enrichment questions

[mr.prick]

you will need to install the wideband software to program the analog output values (if it has software) , to read properly with the v1 or v2
witch ever you have.

[twadam]

The third piece of information I learned tonight, was that the O2 sensors do actually provide feedback during PE mode. I was mislead from other research that PE Mode was similar to Open Loop in that the O2 sensors did not provide useful data as feedback.
I would like to see the research that come to this conclusion. Since PE is a richer than stoich mixture the o2 sensors will not be able to calculate the AFR with any accuracy. Also from my understanding any learnt fuel trims are added into pe mode which will prevent you from getting any relevant data for the ve table anyway.

As for the wideband it is connected through the external inputs in the flashcan. You will need to monitor the correct pid for the wideband output voltage. Out of the box the generic pids will be fine however if whoever you borrowed the wideband from has changed the output voltage you will need to change the pid to suit.

Thanks for your reply. What we did was set up 2 maps in the scanning software (one for bank1 and one for bank 2. We were watching the voltage for the O2 sensors (pre cat sensors) based on TPS% vs RPM. When in PE mode (WOT), the voltage showed .88x - .95x. My assumption prior to this testing was that the computer would force these values to be .445 like in OL. I read an article recently ( I believe the author was affiliated with "PCM for less".) that mentioned you could use the pre cat O2 voltage to get close and the voltages should be around .88x - .92x for max. effeciency. Again, I'm no expert ... just quoting the article.

BTW - the Firehawk is stock ... nothing done to it. This was strictly a learning lesson.

However, now that I have access to a WBO2, I probably will not use this apprach anyway. Thanks for the info on the WB, and the advice on the voltage matching the PID!

[twadam]

you will need to install the wideband software to program the analog output values (if it has software) , to read properly with the v1 or v2
witch ever you have.

Thanks ! I'll most likely be using FlashScan V1. And I think the WBO2 has software with it.

[5.7ute]

Thanks for your reply. What we did was set up 2 maps in the scanning software (one for bank1 and one for bank 2. We were watching the voltage for the O2 sensors (pre cat sensors) based on TPS% vs RPM. When in PE mode (WOT), the voltage showed .88x - .95x. My assumption prior to this testing was that the computer would force these values to be .445 like in OL. I read an article recently ( I believe the author was affiliated with "PCM for less".) that mentioned you could use the pre cat O2 voltage to get close and the voltages should be around .88x - .92x for max. effeciency. Again, I'm no expert ... just quoting the article.

BTW - the Firehawk is stock ... nothing done to it. This was strictly a learning lesson.

However, now that I have access to a WBO2, I probably will not use this apprach anyway. Thanks for the info on the WB, and the advice on the voltage matching the PID!

Even though you get a voltage reading from the narrowband in PE you are still in open loop & the pcm will not adjust to any readings given. Before the ready availability of widebands the narrowband o2 sensors could be used as a rough guide in PE. Unfortunately the voltage output is not accurate away from stoich as exhaust gas temps will vary the voltage output. For example 880mv will be 10.2 to 1 at 900 deg C or 14.1 to 1 at 500 deg C. Too much variation for my liking.

[twadam]

Even though you get a voltage reading from the narrowband in PE you are still in open loop & the pcm will not adjust to any readings given. Before the ready availability of widebands the narrowband o2 sensors could be used as a rough guide in PE. Unfortunately the voltage output is not accurate away from stoich as exhaust gas temps will vary the voltage output. For example 880mv will be 10.2 to 1 at 900 deg C or 14.1 to 1 at 500 deg C. Too much variation for my liking.

Ah, very interesting. So if I understand this right, in OL the PCM will not adjust based on the NBO2 readings AND these readings are 'forced' by the PCM to look 'perfect' at .445mv. However, in PE the NBO2 does provide voltage feedback. Granted this feedback is not used by the PCM to adjust VE, and the voltage itself can be inaccurate the further from stoich you are ?

So does this mean that even in CL ... the further from Stoich you are the less accurate the NBO2 is ? So the benefits of WBO2 could be summed up by saying it is more accurate over a broader temp and AFR range. Is WBO2 faster also ?

Looks like I have some learning to do on WBO2. I plan to try and hook up the WBO2 tonight, to see if I can get it to work. If so, I have high hopes of roughing in the entire OL table.

Thanks everyone for you feedback !

[twadam]

I'm dealing with a Innovate Motorsports LM-1 WBO2 sensor. I tried calibrating the sensor ... however, the little red LED and momentary ground switch that comes with the kit concerns me. The LED is not lighting up. I have a feeling the LED might not work. I even tried to hook the LED straight to 12V power and ground ... still no light. Without the light working, I'm not comfortable that the WBO2 was calibrated properly. It says something about the LED flashing slow, then fast and then stay on steady afterwards.

Also, I was going to plug the output wires from the LM-1 into the FlashScan cable, but it seemed that the WBO2 PIDS were not activated. I mean they had an "X" on them as if they were not selectable. What's up with that ?
Can anyone tell me exactly what PID your using to monitor the WBO2 in EFILive and why my PIDS have an "X" on them ?

[5.7ute]

You are actually using the LC-1 not an LM-1. I have had no experience with the LC 1 so I cant help you there .As for the pids you need to select which external port you are using as well as the corresponding pid.
Eg pids AD1 ,AFR LC11, ben LC11
AD2 ,AFR LC12, ben LC12.
You can right click on a pid & select more info if you have trouble getting them to work.

[SSpdDmon]

I'm dealing with a Innovate Motorsports LM-1 WBO2 sensor. I tried calibrating the sensor ... however, the little red LED and momentary ground switch that comes with the kit concerns me. The LED is not lighting up. I have a feeling the LED might not work. I even tried to hook the LED straight to 12V power and ground ... still no light. Without the light working, I'm not comfortable that the WBO2 was calibrated properly. It says something about the LED flashing slow, then fast and then stay on steady afterwards.

Also, I was going to plug the output wires from the LM-1 into the FlashScan cable, but it seemed that the WBO2 PIDS were not activated. I mean they had an "X" on them as if they were not selectable. What's up with that ?
Can anyone tell me exactly what PID your using to monitor the WBO2 in EFILive and why my PIDS have an "X" on them ?

It sounds like you have the LC1 and not the LM1. Doesn't the LED have it's own seperate wire? Why would you hook it to a 12v source? I believe when I had my LC1, the LED was hooked to it's own wire and possibly the same ground as the system and analog grounds (which were the middle pin on the Flashscan connector).

As for the pid not working, you need to select EXT.AD1 or EXT.AD2 along with your WBO2 pid and your WBO2's BEN pid. Right clicking on a pid will usually have additional information - especially when other, supporting pids are required.

**Edit** I'm a slow typer. :(

[twadam]

You are actually using the LC-1 not an LM-1. I have had no experience with the LC 1 so I cant help you there .As for the pids you need to select which external port you are using as well as the corresponding pid.
Eg pids AD1 ,AFR LC11, ben LC11
AD2 ,AFR LC12, ben LC12.
You can right click on a pid & select more info if you have trouble getting them to work.

Just the info I needed ! I see I can log both AD1/AD2 as well as LC11/LC12.
The PC I was on earlier tonight looked like all the WB PIDS were unselectable, by demo version I'm looking at now seems to have some available. I'll have to look closer at this on the other PC. Looks like I'll need to use pins C and E on the 3Pin external connector and log calc.afr_lc11 and calc.afr_lc12 PIDS.

What about pin D on the external connector ... do I need to hook a ground to this ?

edit:
Oh, and your probably right ... it must be the LC-1. I was looking at the innovate's site and I do not have the digital display (hence the goofy LED light and momentary ground switch).

[twadam]

It sounds like you have the LC1 and not the LM1. Doesn't the LED have it's own seperate wire? Why would you hook it to a 12v source? I believe when I had my LC1, the LED was hooked to it's own wire and possibly the same ground as the system and analog grounds (which were the middle pin on the Flashscan connector).

As for the pid not working, you need to select EXT.AD1 or EXT.AD2 along with your WBO2 pid and your WBO2's BEN pid. Right clicking on a pid will usually have additional information - especially when other, supporting pids are required.

**Edit** I'm a slow typer. :(

The manual said to hook the red wire of the LED to the black (calibration) wire of the LC-1 harness. Then, that same black calibration wire to one end of the momentary switch ...

The other end of the momentary switch went to ground, the black wire of the LED goes to this same ground. Unfortunately I did not have a lot of time tonight.

So you grounded the entire system to the middle pin of the FlashScan connector ? I was grounding everything directly to the battery as well as pulling power directly from the battery.

edit:
Maybe I blew the LED by attempting to hook it directly to 12V ?