2-bar roadmap

[mistermike]

Not having read every thread available, I was somewhat under the impression that upon installing the modified O/S that kPa tables would be able to be extended out to 210 as apparently the "other" tuning product does. So it appears in that sense, a 2 bar mod is really no different between the standard and commercial versions.
Are there any plans to introduce that functionality so that baro updating doesn't have to be defeated?

[Blacky]

Not having read every thread available, I was somewhat under the impression that upon installing the modified O/S that kPa tables would be able to be extended out to 210 as apparently the "other" tuning product does. So it appears in that sense, a 2 bar mod is really no different between the standard and commercial versions.
Are there any plans to introduce that functionality so that baro updating doesn't have to be defeated?

EFILive has always maintained that our 2-bar solution did not involve extending any tables. EFILive (via Starr Performance and ChipMaster) have been tuning supercharged LS1's for many years. We have never found it necessary to extend the VE table.

The *only* reason to extend the VE table is to prevent loss of table resolution. The interpolation performed by the PCM compensates for the lower resolution extremely well.

You can also set our 2-bar up as 1.25 bar or 1.5 bar or 1.75 bar depending on your maximum boost settings. That gives back a lot of resolution for those that will not run all the way to 2-bar.

By the way, I believe the "other" tuning solution also turns off baro updating... Maybe someone can ask them and see what they say???

The reason you need a commercial license for the 2-bar mod is so that you can run dual spark maps in MAFless mode. To get the dual spark requires using one of our customised operating systems and that requires a full flash. Only our Commercial (or Workshop) version can perform a full flash.
If you have a Personal version and can find someone to perform the full flash for you, then you can tune the 2-bar setup with the Personal version.

Regards
Paul

[Blacky]

Just thought I'd better explain what is meant by interpolation.
The following image shows how the PCM "fills in" the correct values between the discrete cell values.

Some advocates of the "increased VE table resolution" would have you believe that if you did not increase the VE table you would end up with a "choppy" low resolution data set, represented by the pink line. The pink numbers are the actual values stored in the VE table, the white numbers are included as duplicates to represent the loss of resolution and so that Excel can draw the graph line.

In reality, the interpolation done by the PCM "smooths" out the "gaps" in the table by using a fast but effective weighted average of the cells around the required value. The interpolated half resolution lookup values are represented by the yellow line. The yellow numbers are the actual values stored in the VE table, the gray numbers are computed "on the fly" by the PCM.

The blue line shows what the original table resolution would be.

As you can see the pink line is *way* off and that is what "scares" some people into thinking that they need the increased resolution.
The yellow line is *very* close to the actual table resolution even though it's actual resolution has been halved.

I hope that sheds some "real world" light on the issue.

Regards
Paul

[SS2win]

You can also set our 2-bar up as 1.25 bar or 1.5 bar or 1.75 bar depending on your maximum boost settings. That gives back a lot of resolution for those that will not run all the way to 2-bar.

From my PM box:

There is no reason why the table has to be 2-bar, it could be 1.25 bar or 1.5 bar. It should "just work" depending on how you scale the MAP sensor using: {C6301}.

Normally for a full 2-bar setup you would adjust that scaler value until you get BARO=50kPa in the Scan Tool at Key-On.

If you wanted a 1.75 bar VE table, then you would adjust that scaler value until you get BARO=57kPa at KeyOn.

If you wanted a 1.5 bar VE table, then you would adjust that scaler value until you get BARO=66kPa at KeyOn.

If you wanted a 1.25 bar VE table, then you would adjust that scaler value until you get BARO=80kPa at KeyOn.

P.S. If any table lookup are indexed outside of the table row/colums, then the PCM uses the value from the table closest to the edge where the index went off the table.

Paul, one thing that would be REALY NICE is if you and Ross took a break from the daily grind, sat down together and wrote up a nice set of documentation on 2 BAR setup (and tuning). You guys know how it's done and have given out the information when asked but it is not in one place. Eventually I will write something up for myself and if it is good enough I might post it but for now and the forseeable future 2BAR SETUP NEEDS DOCS!!! :wink:

[mistermike]

Paul, once again, thanks for the clarification. I learn something every time I hear from you! It appears that the ECM interpolation alleviates any worries about the table resolution.
My main interest was the baro update, and if this is the way it's universally done, then there's not much point in beating a dead horse.

I have in the back of my mind an evil scheme to have my cake and eat it too. A time delay relay between the signal terminal of 1 bar and 2 bar MAP sensors that would allow the ECM enough time to sample BARO, then switch over to the 2 bar for running. Mwahahaha.

Does the ECM pull BARO as soon as the ignition is powered on, and how short an interval would one need before switching to 2 bar so as to avoid potential starting or idling problems? Or am I just full of s**t? :wink:

[Black02SS]

If you have a Personal version and can find someone to perform the full flash for you, then you can tune the 2-bar setup with the Personal version.

Regards
Paul

Woudn't this take away a license from your buddies "commerical" version or does a full re-flash not apply??

[SS2win]

commercial version is required to flash the custom OS. personal version can tune it no problem.

[Black02SS]

Right, I knew that, what I am inquiring about is if I do a Full flash on my buddies car to a custom OS, will I lose one of my licenses.

[SS2win]

Oops my ADD meter is pegged today.... good question

[Tordne]

Woudn't this take away a license from your buddies "commerical" version or does a full re-flash not apply??

Any type of flash, either calibration or full flash will require the use of a licence from the FlashScan cable. Just flick your buddy $99 and you will be all square again.