Page 2 of 10 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 100

Thread: Northstar info

  1. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    169

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CalEditor View Post
    I have everything to make this run.

    I have sooooooo much info on the Northstar.

    I have an LS1 PCM running my Northstar currently!
    Electronic Ignition (EI) System Description




    The Ignition Control System for this Powertrain controls fuel combustion by providing a spark to ignite the compressed air/fuel mixture in each cylinder at the correct time. The ignition control system has several advantages over a mechanical distributor ignition system.

    • No moving parts to wear out.
    • No mechanical load on the engine.
    • Elimination of mechanical timing adjustments.
    • Located for easier service and improved reliability.
    • Improved high engine speed performance.


    The Ignition Control System consists of the following components:

    • Two crankshaft position sensors (A and B).
    • Crankshaft reluctor ring.
    • Camshaft position sensor.
    • Ignition control module.
    • 4 separate ignition coils.
    • Eight spark plug wires and conduit.
    • Eight spark plugs.
    • Knock sensor.
    • Powertrain Control Module (PCM).



    System Operation
    The Ignition Control System does not use a conventional distributor or a single ignition coil. In this ignition system, both ends of each of the four ignition coils are connected to a spark plug. Each coil is connected with spark plugs on companion cylinders, i.e., on top dead center at the same time (1-4, 2-5, 6-7, and 3-8). One cylinder is on its compression stroke when the other one is on its exhaust stroke.

    When the coil discharges, both plugs fire at the same time by using the engine block to complete the electrical circuit. The cylinder on the compression stroke is called the event cylinder and the one on the exhaust stroke is the waste cylinder. The two cylinders share the energy available from the ignition coil to fire both spark plugs. This method of ignition is called waste spark ignition.

    Since the polarity of the ignition coil primary and secondary windings does not change, one spark plug always fires with a forward current (center electrode to ground electrode) and its companion plug fires with a reverse current (ground electrode to center electrode). This is different from a conventional distributor ignition system that fires all the plugs with the same forward current flow.

    It is possible for one spark plug to fire even though a plug wire from the same coil may be disconnected from its companion spark plug. The disconnected plug wire acts as one plate of a capacitor and the engine block acts as the other plate. These two capacitor plates are charged as a spark first jumps across the gap of the connected spark plug. The plates are then discharged as the energy is dissipated as the spark continues. Voltage requirements are very high with an open spark plug or wire. The ignition coil may have enough reserve energy to fire the connected plug at idle, but possibly not under some engine load conditions. A more noticeable misfire may be evident under load; both spark plugs may then not fire.

    Crankshaft Position Sensors and Reluctor Ring
    The two crankshaft sensors are located on the front bank (BANK 2) of the engine block between cylinders 4 and 6. Crankshaft position A sensor is located in the upper crankcase and crankshaft position B sensor is located in the lower crankcase. Both sensors extend into the crankcase and are sealed to the engine block with O-rings. The crankshaft position sensors are not adjustable.

    The magnetic crankshaft position sensors operate similar to the pickup coil in a distributor. When a piece of steel (called a reluctor) is repeatedly moved over the sensor, a voltage will be created by the sensor that appears to go On-Off-On-Off-On-Off. This On-Off signal is also similar to the signal that a set of breaker points in a distributor would generate as the distributor shaft turned and the points opened and closed.

    The reluctor ring is cast onto the crankshaft between the #3 and #4 main bearing journals. The reluctor ring has 24 evenly spaced notches or air gaps and an additional 8 unevenly spaced notches for a total of 32.

    As the crankshaft makes one complete revolution, both the A and B sensors will produce 32 On-Off pulses per revolution. In addition, the A sensor is positioned 27 degrees of crankshaft revolution before the B sensor. This creates a unique pattern of On-Off pulses sent to the ignition control module so that it can recognize crankshaft position.

    Camshaft Sensor
    The camshaft position sensor is located on the rear cylinder bank (BANK 1) in front of the exhaust camshaft. The camshaft position sensor extends into the rear cylinder head and is sealed with an O-ring. The camshaft position sensor is not adjustable.

    As the rear cylinder bank exhaust camshaft turns, a steel pin on its drive sprocket passes over the magnetic camshaft position sensor. This creates an On-Off-On-Off signal sent to the ignition control module similar to the crankshaft position sensors. The camshaft position sensor produces one On-Off pulse for every one revolution of the camshaft or every two revolutions of the crankshaft. This allows the ignition control module to recognize camshaft position.

    Ignition Control Module
    The Ignition Control (IC) module is located on top of the rear camshaft cover. The IC module performs several functions:

    • It monitors the On-Off pulses produced by the two crankshaft and one camshaft position sensors.
    • It creates a 4X and 24X reference signal (4X REF HI and 24X Crank) sent to the PCM for ignition control.
    • It creates a camshaft reference signal (CAM HI) sent to the PCM for fuel injection control.
    • It provides a ground reference (REF LO, CAM LO) to the PCM.
    • It provides a means for the PCM to control spark advance (BYPASS and IGNITION CONTROL) called IGNITION CONTROL MODE.
    • It provides a limited means of controlling spark advance without PCM input called MODULE MODE.
    • The IC module is not repairable. When a module is replaced the remaining components must be transferred to the new module.


    Ignition Coils
    Four separate coils are mounted to the module assembly. Each coil provides the spark for two spark plugs simultaneously (wasted spark ignition). Each coil can be replaced separately.


    Base Ignition Timing
    The base ignition timing is determined by the relationship of the crankshaft position sensors to the reluctor ring. This relationship is not adjustable and results in a base ignition timing of 10 degrees BTDC.

    IC Module Mode
    There are two modes of ignition system operation: PCM mode and Ignition Control Module (IC Module) mode. In IC Module mode, the ignition system operates independently from the PCM. The ignition control module maintains a base ignition timing of 10 degrees BTDC and is able to change this ignition timing slightly with increased engine speed. IC Module mode is in effect whenever an ignition control fault is detected while the engine is running and it will have a noticeable effect on driveability. In PCM mode, the PCM controls the ignition timing. The PCM calculates the desired ignition timing based on information it receives from the input sensors.

    PCM Timing Mode
    The Powertrain Control Module (PCM) controls spark advance and fuel injection for all driving conditions. The PCM monitors input signals from the following components as part of its ignition control function to determine the required ignition timing:

    • Ignition Control Module (IC Module).
    • Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) sensor.
    • Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) sensor.
    • Transaxle Range (TR) switch.
    • Throttle Position (TP) sensor.
    • Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS).
    • Knock Sensor (KS).





    • The crankshaft reluctor ring has 24 evenly spaced notches plus 8 additional notches (shaded) used for synchronization.
    • As the crankshaft rotates, the notches pass the position sensors and create a voltage pulse signal in the sensor that is an input for the ignition control module (ICM).
    • Because of the physical location of the 2 crankshaft position sensors, the signal of B lags the signal of A by 27 degrees of crankshaft revolution.
    • To synchronize the ignition, the ICM first counts the number of B pulses between every 2 A pulses. There can be 0, 1, or 2 B pulses between A pulses.
    • When the ICM sees 0 B pulses between A pulses , it starts counting B pulses between A pulses. When the ICM counts exactly 4, it synchronizes the ignition on the very next A pulse. If the ICM counts over 4 (jumps from 3 to 5), it waits for another B pulse between A pulse to start counting again.
    • This process allows the ignition to synchronize and fire the first spark plug within 180 degrees (1/2 engine revolution).
    • The camshaft position (CMP) sensor provides the ICM with cylinder #1 firing order information, which the PCM uses for sequential fuel injection.
    • Using 3 sensors allows the ICM to maintain ignition synchronization even if one of the 3 sensors fails.


    Ignition Control Module Inputs and Outputs


  2. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    169

    Default


  3. #13
    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    28,403

    Default

    CalEditor, welcome to the forum...

  4. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    169

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MICK View Post
    I have the same thoughts on these engines. Interesting...

    There has been a little talk of running early model Northstar's on a 0411 pcm of late.

    But a E67 sounds like fun to.

    You don't happen to have a 0411 pcm tune file for a Northstar do you Ross?

    I think you might find the 4L60E will bolt up well, I would be very surprised if it was a no go.

    Mick
    Quote Originally Posted by N0DIH View Post
    The N* IIRC has the V6/FWD trans bolt pattern. So you would need a S10 or other narrow trans housing.

    But the nice thing is after 95 or so, all the 4L60E's had removable bells....

    I know I personally have thought of a 0411 swap in them, but they have so much headgasket issues, and so darn pricey to fix, i would rather toss in an 0411 PCM and a LS4......

    The issue really is running the engine is easy, but running the FDC (Fuel Data Center) and other high tech electronics is unknown territory.....
    I have been around NODIH about a year. I think we will be meeting up this weekend. I have know Mick a few month on another forum

  5. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    169

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GMPX View Post
    Hi All,

    Just wondering, what sort of crank / cam signals do the RWD Northstar engines have (pre 2007 E67 versions)? I know the earlier ones had twin crank sensors, but I would be certain this has changed on the E67 based ones.
    Retrofitting those earlier ones that have the stupid Siemens PCM would be an interesting project, especially when the Shelby 4.0L Northstar uses an LS1 PCM (See this Ebay Motors Item number: 230237506492)
    Also, anyone know how well a 4L60E might bolt up to one?

    Thanks,
    Ross
    All FWD 1996 to 1999 Northstars either Oldsmobile or Cadillac run a Delco PCM with a SERV. NO. 16214848

    All 1999 RWD run a Delphi PCM & SERV. NO. 9354896
    Lyndon has the software to tune


    In 2000 they repositioned the crank sensors and redesigned the notches on the crank. So the block and PCM have to match at this time

    All 2000 to 2003 run the same PCM. It is the SIEMENS. They had several SERV. NO. but they all supersede to one number. The PCM in my hand is a 12562481 and I know it is not the latest and greatest number.

    All 2004 and 2005 FWD used a Serv. NO. 12587465 PCM. I think the is a E22, but it is not GMLAN. This has Transmission functions


    This is a link to some PCM type and Information on all GM PCM's

    PCM Type & Information List

  6. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    60

    Default

    Nice Info. Thank you!

  7. #17
    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    28,403

    Default

    CalEditor,

    Did you delete the ICM and just let the PCM drive 8 coils (and what did you do for the CKP/CMP reluctor wheels)...?

    Cheers
    Joe

  8. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    169

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by joecar View Post
    CalEditor,

    Did you delete the ICM and just let the PCM drive 8 coils (and what did you do for the CKP/CMP reluctor wheels)...?

    Cheers
    Joe
    NO.

    I will post more infor later. Cadillac's are calling me for help. In other words I must work

  9. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    169

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 97K15004WD View Post
    Nice Info. Thank you!
    MDI is on it's way

  10. #20

Page 2 of 10 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Support for 2005 Bonneville GXP Northstar??
    By KAZ MotorSports in forum General (Petrol, Gas, Ethanol)
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: April 2nd, 2011, 09:00 AM
  2. Northstar support?
    By KAZ MotorSports in forum General (Petrol, Gas, Ethanol)
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: November 16th, 2007, 11:05 AM
  3. Northstar cadillac
    By 94caprice00gmc in forum General (Petrol, Gas, Ethanol)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: August 30th, 2007, 02:33 AM
  4. Don't want a war, but need some info
    By serpa4 in forum Duramax 06 LLY / 06+ LBZ & LMM
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: February 18th, 2007, 12:17 PM
  5. Any info on dates yet?
    By JxxxOxxxE in forum General (Petrol, Gas, Ethanol)
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: July 2nd, 2004, 02:00 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •