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Thread: Transient fuelling????

  1. #51
    Lifetime Member Whippled 496's Avatar
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    I am also patiently waiting for this update. Please, please hurry
    2014 GMC 2500HD RCLB SLE
    LML / Allison

  2. #52
    Lifetime Member hquick's Avatar
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    This is an email I just received from my buddy at GM.

    There probably isn't much in the way of non-GM confidential stuff I can give you about transient fuelling. However, if you are really keen, take a look at this book:
    http://www.amazon.com/Internal-Combu...3311731&sr=1-4

    A lot of the guys at work have got this book.
    It is VERY heavy reading, but if it isn't covered in this book, it probably isn't worth covering.
    Howard

    YOU ONLY NEED TWO TOOLS IN LIFE - WD-40 AND DUCT TAPE. IF IT DOESN'T
    MOVE AND SHOULD, USE THE WD-40. IF IT SHOULDN'T MOVE AND DOES, USE THE
    DUCT TAPE.
    IF YOU CAN'T FIX IT WITH A HAMMER, YOU'VE GOT AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM.


    98 K1500 'HOLDEN' Suburban.
    Custom Whipple SC, Mercruiser Marine intake, 0411 PCM, 4L80E w/shift kit

  3. #53
    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
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    Default Heywood's "Internal Combustion Engine Fundamentals"

    Very heavy reading... very detailed, and includes a lot of math and thoery backed up by empirical data...

    written by an engineer for engineers... a good book, but not for the feint of heart... a thick book and so requires persistent reading over a long term.

  4. #54
    Lifetime Member 5.7ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joecar View Post
    written by an engineer for engineers... a good book, but not for the feint of heart... a thick book and so requires persistent reading over a long term.
    Or a frontal lobotomy
    The Tremor at AIR

  5. #55
    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
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    lol... engineers have traded social skills for other abilities.

  6. #56
    Lifetime Member 5.7ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joecar View Post
    lol... engineers have traded social skills for other abilities.
    A few years ago (OK quite a few years ago)when I was doing my apprenticeship they had this great picture on the wall. It was of a bucktoothed derro with the caption. Six munce ago I cudnt even spil engineer
    & now I are one. Definately suited the few we had.(Civil)
    The Tremor at AIR

  7. #57
    Lifetime Member hquick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5.7ute View Post
    Or a frontal lobotomy
    How about a full bottle in front of me?
    Howard

    YOU ONLY NEED TWO TOOLS IN LIFE - WD-40 AND DUCT TAPE. IF IT DOESN'T
    MOVE AND SHOULD, USE THE WD-40. IF IT SHOULDN'T MOVE AND DOES, USE THE
    DUCT TAPE.
    IF YOU CAN'T FIX IT WITH A HAMMER, YOU'VE GOT AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM.


    98 K1500 'HOLDEN' Suburban.
    Custom Whipple SC, Mercruiser Marine intake, 0411 PCM, 4L80E w/shift kit

  8. #58
    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hquick View Post
    How about a full bottle in front of me?
    roflmao...

  9. #59
    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5.7ute View Post
    A few years ago (OK quite a few years ago)when I was doing my apprenticeship they had this great picture on the wall. It was of a bucktoothed derro with the caption. Six munce ago I cudnt even spil engineer
    & now I are one. Definately suited the few we had.(Civil)
    I have seen a similar poster... it is very funny......our engineering faculty sold T-shirts with that inscription on the back.

  10. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by hquick View Post
    This is some info on transient fuel my buddy at GM just sent me.
    Hope it helps when we get to play with the updated software.

    Code:
    OK - first I'll give a brief reason as to why you need transient fuel, and then I'll go through how to go about utilizing it. 
    
    In a PFI engine the natural tendency of the equivalence ratio (EQR, which is the inverse of Lambda) is to go lean on positive 
    MAP change, and rich on negative MAP change, due to fuel being lost on the port/cylinder wall. This is affected greatly by intake 
    valve temperature, SOI (start of injection timing), fuel volatility and engine age (mainly due to carbon buildup),. Valve 
    temperature should be modeled by the software. This is hugely important, as this plays a big part in determining how much fuel 
    you put in/take out during a transient manouvre. If you do not have a valve temperature model in your software, coolant temp 
    should get you close enough. SOI is controlled by the ECU and should be completely calibratable. Generally the earlier you inject, 
    the more wall wetting you get and the more transient fuel compensation you need. Most engine control software has no way 
    of knowing what the fuel volatility is (it is very difficult to accurately gauge by the ECU), and so the majority ignore it. This is 
    unfortunate, as volatility plays a massive part in transient response. As far as I'm aware, no software currently compensates 
    for engine age either. 
    
    The easiest way to think of it is that fuel builds up on the port wall in high load, and then evaporates off when you return back 
    to low load, and usually follows a skewed sinusoidal shape . Therefore you need to add on the way up and subtract on the way 
    out in order to keep fuelling at around EQR 1.00.
     
    If you do not calibrate transient fuel correctly, the car will go lean on tipins, resulting in a stretchy acceleration (sometimes called rubberbanding). 
    Richness on tipout isn't as big a deal as far as drivability goes - its more of an emissions issue. However, if you make your 
    decel compensation too agressive (by the cal in (c) below), you can go lean on tipout, which can make your decels feel very 
    snatchy and unpleasant to drive. 
    
    Before you do ANY transient fuel calibration, you need to ensure that your air measurement and open loop fuelling are top notch. 
    You don't want to be compensating for poor fuel or air control with transient fuel. 
    
    To cut a very long and complicated algorithm down into its bare bones, you should have the following basic functionality 
    in your transient fuel cals: 
    a) a table of fuel adjustment as a function of valve temperature vs delta MAP. This is your "bread and butter" transient fuel table. 
    This gives you the height of the sinusoidal wave. 
    
    b) a table which modifies the fuel adjustment to "bleed out" the transient fuel applied in (a). This gives you the width 
    (or to put it more accurately, the duration of transient compensation) of the sinusiodal shape and also effects maximum 
    height to some extent. It models the evaporation of the fuel puddle off the port wall. It should also be a table of valve temp vs delta MAP.
     
    c) a scalar to change wall wetting compensation for decels. You generally find that you need to pull out less fuel on 
    decels than what you put in on accels. This should just be a scalar of compensation vs valve temp. The software will 
    work fine without this, but its a good functionality to have. 
    
    d) functionality to suspend transient fuel for x seconds after start. You do not want transient fuel pulling out fuel 
    just after start, when MAP falls from 100 to idle MAP. 
    
    As far as calibrating transient fuel goes, you generally only need a lot of transient fuel up to around 70 or 80 degrees 
    valve temperature (depending on capacity and airspeed over valves etc). After that point you shouldn't need too 
    much transient fuel compensation at all, as practically 100% of your injected fuel should be going into the cylinder. 
    Below 10 degrees you may find you need a lot. If you are having poor drivability cold, in particular if you are feeling 
    stretchy accels, this is probably why. 
    
    Hope this helps, let me know if you have any questions about this stuff. It's a lot to digest, and its very hard to 
    explain some of this stuff without diagrams etc.
    The attached image is from the HP Tuners, but from the description above do these appear to be the transient fueling tables in question? Sorry about the large image.

    Last edited by 405HP_Z06; June 16th, 2008 at 03:03 PM.
    Aaron
    '03 Z06 Corvette - The normal stuff...
    EFI-101, EFI Advanced, EFILive-101
    EFI University Evangelist

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