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Thread: LMM Programming History & CVN's Explained

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMPX View Post
    ......Thing is, everything is hackable, look at Vista, M$ said that nobody could hack the lic.....



    Ross

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  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky8370 View Post
    If the whole warranty gets voided because of a tune that did not cause damage, well that's BS.
    I completely agree...With my '05 & '07, I've had 1 stereo, 2 sideview mirrors, 2 headrests and 1 seat replaced...I'm fairly certain my tuning didn't have anything to do with the failures...
    2007 CC/SB 4WD, McRat EFI Live, Trans, Trans Cooler and C3 clutch oiling mod by Mike L., SD Sleeves, SoCal Diesel

    2002 CC/DRW 2WD, McRat EFI Live, Trans, Trans Cooler and C3 clutch oiling mod by Mike L., SoCal Diesel

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Neens View Post
    I completely agree...With my '05 & '07, I've had 1 stereo, 2 sideview mirrors, 2 headrests and 1 seat replaced...I'm fairly certain my tuning didn't have anything to do with the failures...
    I have your race tune, are you sure the headrests and seat weren't caused by your tuning??
    '07 LBZ Classic, BW S464 Turbo, EGR deleted, 3" IC piping, Trans-go, ATS 5-star converter, stock clutches

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMPX View Post
    Not so much leaving the door open but more hiding the door key under the mat. They don't use any encryption or compression systems in the programming process, some Bosch ECM's do, so the technology is there (at least from one ECM supplier). You are right, maybe the ECM used in the 4.5L Dmax will be locked down beyond anything we have seen before, I have no idea.
    The reverse engineering process could be made considerably harder if they wanted to make it so. Thing is, everything is hackable, look at Vista, M$ said that nobody could hack the licensing, I think within days people were posting hacks for it!, imagine how much M$ spent trying to stop that happening.
    You have to keep in mind the only reason GM now have this programming tracking is to stop bogus warranty claims, by removing this you are going to upset the General, surely.

    As we learned from the O2 Sims company that got shutdown, disclaimers are apparently worthless.

    We had a similar discussion on the DPF/Cat removal, yes it is illegal in the US to do this, but, as a real world example, there is a company in New Zealand fitting Duramax's to boats, they needed to remove VATS, DPF, CAT etc, sometimes there is genuine reasons to remove such items where it is not practical to use them or they are not needed.
    What will be interesting is what happens with GM's ECM exchange process, normally if you buy a new ECM you can give them your old 'core' and get a discount, so does this mean the spare parts stores will be selling refurbished ECM's will a bad history or will Bosch erase it for them?

    Either way, this is an interesting dicussion and it's good to see that our customers are divided on this issue too, I don't feel so bad.

    Cheers,
    Ross

    Hi Ross, I am new to this board but I have been actively tuning cars since long before EFI Live, HPT or other OBD2 software pacakges. Way back when there was still removable proms in the ECMs that were used in the GM cars and trucks. I tried to protect my tunes on some cars by changing the check sums so that the commonly available tuner software such as TunerCat wouldn't ID the the binary file. Of course for the people that were good enough it was very easy to defeat my little modified check sum trick.

    Since then now we have this CVN issue. Warranty issues for me is not an issue. I know if I mod my engines internals my warranty is done which is exactly what I have done to a brand new Z06. I also have customers that have brought their cars to me with less than a 1000 miles on them to have me install a Magggie blower kit or another with a brand new C6 Convertible that I recently installed a LS7 engine with a wet sump lubrication system. These customers are obviously not concerned with warranty concerns.

    My issue is that 99% of my customers drive their modded cars on a regular basis. So my concern is them passing their annual or bi-annual emissions test so that they can license their cars. I realize that by the book a heavily cammed engine with ported heads, and headers won't be passing a SMOG inspection, this is especially true in the Republic of California where even headers are illegal. However do to the corrupt there is even a go around for headers if one has the cash :lol: So what I am concerned with is if the EPA or the local authorities mandates that their inspection programs start checking CVNs, then the entire business of doing this sort of work is at stake. I have heard that California is already checking CVNs but I have not verified that at this time. I can see the writing on the wall, that it is most likely coming. As one member already mentioned, one tuner who is in Michigan is already creating custom tunes that has the correct CVNs. So the hack is done, but yet to be implemented in the commonly available software.

    Just how hard is it to crack their CVN strategy? I am going to SEMA this year, perhaps if you are there I would like to meet and talk. I worked for a couple Austrailian firms in my old engineering days. One of them is Austrailias largest paper manufacturers. I helped to design and build a 100% recycle paper mill in New Mexico for them. I was responsible for engineering the plants process control system.

  5. #75
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    TJW, welcome to the forum...

  6. #76
    Lifetime Member GMPX's Avatar
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    Hi TJW, thanks for your input. I too remember the days of UV light tuning :-) , it was easier back then. The size of two spark tables in the E38 is about the same size as a whole engine calibration from days gone by.

    Whilst I can't speak on behalf of the Governator I am sure that since selling he's Hummers (which were probably tuned) that the idea is to stop people modifying their cars totally so they meet the emission requirements GM are forced to comply with as long as possible. But the after market is too big to let that one get through, surely?

    Keep in mind that the ECM is just running a computer program written by humans, so, that means another human can modify it to do something different. That is not really the problem (for us), it's the concept of knowingly bypassing that where the problem is.
    Even by fooling the CVN's you are treading on deadly ground.
    It would be quite simple to hack the ECM code to report whatever CVN you wanted it to, but somewhere down the line someone at GM might figure out what is going on and then you are back to this issue of knowingly bypassing a check GM / EPA have put in place to detect tuned vehicles. In the eyes of the EPA that is probably as bad as pulling the cats off and running AVGas.

    Yes we are at SEMA, please feel free to call by our booth, we will be in the main hall.

    Cheers,
    Ross
    I no longer monitor the forum, please either post your question or create a support ticket.

  7. #77
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    According to www.semashow.com EFILive will be in SEMA booth 21951 in the "Racing and Performance" section.

    Ross,

    It occurred to me that when EFILive releases the full reflash capability for the LMM ECM, (Before SEMA right?) we could then alternate flashing different stock calibrations and OS# until the history is filled with legit CVNs.

    Are you listening Paul?

    Anyone?

    Anyone?

    Bueller?
    www.socaldiesel.com



    EFILive-DSP5......Switch your Attitude!
    EFILive-CSP5......The Smart Way To Switch Your Cummins Tunes!
    EFILive-DSP4......Switch Your Colorado and Canyon Too!

  8. #78
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    How many flashes does the history hold? Does it record dates or other info besides cvn number? That could take a while.

  9. #79
    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
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    I wasn't paying attention (or I forgot... I dunno which...)... what happens after the 10th [different] flash...?

  10. #80
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    After the 10th flash, the last one is not displayed, and a new one is stored in its place.

    The CVN and the part number are both shown at least with current tech 2 software. Since there seems to be only 2-4 correct OS ID's for any given LMM/LBZ vehicle. It is unlikely you could get 10 correct, in sequence updates to reflash in order to fake a dealer.

    While there are several correct enigne calibration sections, a dealer could still question why your pcm had engine operations history from a van, kodiac, and truck all in history.

    The company in michigan also locks the pcm/tcm, so dealer would know really quick that something was up if they went to reflash it.

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