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Thread: PCM 12593358 Cax File Check

  1. #11
    Lifetime Member hquick's Avatar
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    I'm getting info on how to adjust which parameters and maybe that can be put in the table descriptions.
    All info will be stuff we can use...no proprietry info...my own writing.
    Howard

    YOU ONLY NEED TWO TOOLS IN LIFE - WD-40 AND DUCT TAPE. IF IT DOESN'T
    MOVE AND SHOULD, USE THE WD-40. IF IT SHOULDN'T MOVE AND DOES, USE THE
    DUCT TAPE.
    IF YOU CAN'T FIX IT WITH A HAMMER, YOU'VE GOT AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM.


    98 K1500 'HOLDEN' Suburban.
    Custom Whipple SC, Mercruiser Marine intake, 0411 PCM, 4L80E w/shift kit

  2. #12
    Lifetime Member hquick's Avatar
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    Don't know if this is generally 'known' info but it's fairly basic (which is what I personally need ) Hope this helps a few of you. I've been playing with the tables but really didn't understand them. I have managed to fairly dramatically reduce lean tip in.

    1) when seeing lean tip in...Impact factor should be increased. A lean tipin is caused by more fuel impacting on the port wall than what was predicted.


    2) When seeing a rich 'tip-out' (decel) spike....Impact factor should also be increased. More fuel is in the "puddle" on the port wall than what was predicted.

    3) When should I adjust the boiling time constant and which way for which condition?

    Change your boiling time constant only if you are finding that the period of transient compensation (the parabola of fuelling adjustment) is either too short, or going on too long.
    As a general rule boiling constant should only be adjusted as a last resort as it will also effect the way impact factor works, which sometimes results in chasing your tail trying to get it right again.

    A good way to learn this sort of stuff is to make the numbers really big and see what happens. Then make them really small, and observe what happens. There is no danger in doing this with transient fuel (unlike spark!).
    Howard

    YOU ONLY NEED TWO TOOLS IN LIFE - WD-40 AND DUCT TAPE. IF IT DOESN'T
    MOVE AND SHOULD, USE THE WD-40. IF IT SHOULDN'T MOVE AND DOES, USE THE
    DUCT TAPE.
    IF YOU CAN'T FIX IT WITH A HAMMER, YOU'VE GOT AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM.


    98 K1500 'HOLDEN' Suburban.
    Custom Whipple SC, Mercruiser Marine intake, 0411 PCM, 4L80E w/shift kit

  3. #13
    Lifetime Member Biggsy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hquick View Post
    Don't know if this is generally 'known' info but it's fairly basic (which is what I personally need ) Hope this helps a few of you. I've been playing with the tables but really didn't understand them. I have managed to fairly dramatically reduce lean tip in.

    1) when seeing lean tip in...Impact factor should be increased. A lean tipin is caused by more fuel impacting on the port wall than what was predicted.


    2) When seeing a rich 'tip-out' (decel) spike....Impact factor should also be increased. More fuel is in the "puddle" on the port wall than what was predicted.

    3) When should I adjust the boiling time constant and which way for which condition?

    Change your boiling time constant only if you are finding that the period of transient compensation (the parabola of fuelling adjustment) is either too short, or going on too long.
    As a general rule boiling constant should only be adjusted as a last resort as it will also effect the way impact factor works, which sometimes results in chasing your tail trying to get it right again.

    A good way to learn this sort of stuff is to make the numbers really big and see what happens. Then make them really small, and observe what happens. There is no danger in doing this with transient fuel (unlike spark!).

    Thanks for explaining that, I was too afraid to play with the figures as I didn't know what they did.
    Dave.

  4. #14
    Lifetime Member hquick's Avatar
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    No worries!
    You know....I don't know if that 'basic' info is considered top secret by others....but I've scoured the net and HPT forums and I can't find that info ANYWHERE!
    Found HEAPS of threads with people asking but every thread went around in circles and NEVER laid it out!
    Howard

    YOU ONLY NEED TWO TOOLS IN LIFE - WD-40 AND DUCT TAPE. IF IT DOESN'T
    MOVE AND SHOULD, USE THE WD-40. IF IT SHOULDN'T MOVE AND DOES, USE THE
    DUCT TAPE.
    IF YOU CAN'T FIX IT WITH A HAMMER, YOU'VE GOT AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM.


    98 K1500 'HOLDEN' Suburban.
    Custom Whipple SC, Mercruiser Marine intake, 0411 PCM, 4L80E w/shift kit

  5. #15
    Lifetime Member 5.7ute's Avatar
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    IMO rich tip out is caused by more fuel evaporating off the wall & entering the cylinder. So boiling time needs to be adjusted for this condition. Raising these parameters should decrease the amount of fuel injected & therefore reduce the rich tip out.
    Note that the reduction in map (increased vaccuum) will also cause the fuel to evaporate faster off the port wall.
    What I think is going to be the real trick is getting a good baseline for the transients at a set airflow/ect/map, & being able to dial in the modifiers. The other thing is are the modifiers at a set airflow or delta airflow? The scan tool links I have set up are for actual airflow & could be incorrect.
    Last edited by 5.7ute; October 1st, 2008 at 08:00 PM. Reason: rambled on a bit more
    The Tremor at AIR

  6. #16
    Lifetime Member MICK's Avatar
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    Default Hummmm

    Quote Originally Posted by joecar View Post
    Mick,

    I added 12593358...

    I found that the descriptions in this file have been edited...

    do you like these descriptions, or do you like the original descriptions...?

    If you like these newer descriptions, I can bring the other 5 files up to the same edit
    (all the cax files should have the same format/look/feel/descriptions).

    Joe
    I think what we have is ok for now but I agree that we will edit the parameter information as we become to understand more. I'm open to any and all views currently. Should list the parameters out in a word doc and thrash out our best options.

    Mick
    Rev it up, Drop the clutch, See what happens?

  7. #17
    Lifetime Member 5.7ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MICK View Post
    I think what we have is ok for now but I agree that we will edit the parameter information as we become to understand more. I'm open to any and all views currently. Should list the parameters out in a word doc and thrash out our best options.

    Mick
    Good idea Mick. Until we start doing some major testing everything is just a best guess at this point.
    The Tremor at AIR

  8. #18
    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MICK View Post
    I think what we have is ok for now but I agree that we will edit the parameter information as we become to understand more. I'm open to any and all views currently. Should list the parameters out in a word doc and thrash out our best options.

    Mick
    +1... I agree.

  9. #19
    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MICK View Post
    Aaron,

    This will get you right on the mark.

    There is four parameters I disabled from the set but the bread and butter is there and the scalers are very close.

    Joe, could you look at this file and review and add to the supported list of files.

    Cheers

    Mick
    Mick,

    12593358.cax has . (dot) in front of B9006 and B9007... is that intentional...?

    ---> see post #5 on previous page showthread.php?t=9147

    Thanks
    Joe
    Last edited by joecar; October 2nd, 2008 at 01:07 PM.

  10. #20
    Lifetime Member MICK's Avatar
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    Default Hummmmm

    Quote Originally Posted by joecar View Post
    Mick,

    12593358.cax has . (dot) in front of B9006 and B9007... is that intentional...?

    ---> see post #5 on previous page showthread.php?t=9147

    Thanks
    Joe

    Joe,

    That's how I disabled those 2 parameters as they did not look right, I think?...... I need to go over this one and 12205074 to tidy them up. I'm going to look at the scalers a little and fine tune them, they need to be a little more consistent. I am on it.

    Cheers

    Mick
    Rev it up, Drop the clutch, See what happens?

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