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Thread: E38 idle tuning

  1. #201
    Lifetime Member hymey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander View Post
    Anyone got a good trick to get the car to be smooth from park to drive? This 2011 (never happened to me before) wants to die when I put it into park and reverse.
    I have had this issue with t/m pulling airflow on shift, is it setup by throttle or timing and fuel in the A6????. I just improvised with it, I raised min timing at idle.. and played with some corrections. If I turned off t/m it fixed it right away but this car needed torque management. Also I reduced B1650 something to keep in mind and as the idle percentages were so high when it would go into the high timing table! then drop back to the idle timing tables and begin corrections again. This is something I found you have to watch for. Luis Sola told me about this some days before. I actually did not drill a hole in the TB in this car to begin with. But with this issue I drilled a 4 mm hole and reset up the airflow tables to suit(created a buffer).. then put B1650 back to stock. Car idled very nice and stable this also fixed the drop from drive then into reverse. There is no right or wrong way to do these but u have to do the basics first then improvise they are all different, and need to be assessed. Basically see what they respond too. B1652 was set around 0.5 above what it wanted at hot idle and B1651 set 0.15 below. I also raise min idle air below target idle speed then raise up slightly after. I adjust up and down at 1400-1800 rpm to get best throttle feel and smooth transition. Use the main tables to get it all squared away. If you dont want to drill holes. watch for the timing issue. I just keep doing what works for me and never lets me down. The combinations I build now run 260s plus duration and it does get harder here but I use the same principles. Some o/s react different to others .

  2. #202
    Lifetime Member hymey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Alchemist View Post
    Next problem....."Fixing" a poor idle issue on a big cammed VE for a customer.Os: 12612381 Calib: 12612380
    An early Model VE Holden.
    The main culprit is that the biggest ECT TP it will command is 12.7% and thats it even with B1652 at 6 which maxes it out. This is in open loop idle tuning with Min idle airflow maxed out to 63g/s and intergral/proportional set to "0"
    The VE 2012 model I've just finished tuning allows 18.8% with B1652 set to only "3" making cold starts a dream cos you CAN open the throttle further to get the airflow you need.
    Surely there is a setting that can be made available that sets maximum throttle blade angle in idle mode. In earily calibrations this may be set much lower. I've followed exactly the same approach as I always have in setting up the idle.
    My other question is: why does B1650 Max etc area change between models/years with the same throttle body attached to the engine??? I have tried changing this before to tweak max idle ECT TP but often get a limp mode fault P0606 ECU dead. Ringram you say you change B1650 with cammed cars. Could you please let us know how much you change it and what you have achieved using this approach. Changing this value though is surely a bandaid approach. I still think there is a setting for max allowed blade angle at idle because of the different max ECT TP at idle I'm seeing between different years of VE Holdens. Thanks.
    You have to be careful with b1650 some models all good others not I have messed with it when changing to 102mm throttle bodies in the past. Use a combination of hole and B1650. is best.Larger engines have higher airspeed. And need less throttle at idle same as FI engines. with the 6L they will need more idle air . The L98 6L. has a lazy port and requires more throttle openings. Some older os had a very low hard limit. But I think I may know what is causing the issue but I would have to look at the tune. How did u go with the rich start up?

  3. #203
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    Hello Hymey,
    I have a problem and I can't work my head around it at the moment - need help
    I had my car idling after following your steps minus the throttle blade drilling and I had an idle. Then once i drilled a 4mm hole I have no idle and it goes into protection mode showing P068 and P102 (car is in OL)
    Tried increasing B1651/B1652 to 1.120 but still the same result.

    I logged the idle prior to drilling the throttle blade and had the following:
    Map -73
    Airflow - 11.5
    Spark - 5-15 but mostly avg of 8

    Cam is 226/236 110 @ .525 and I have fitted LS3 heads on this LS2 and using the tune which was dialled in prior to the engine mods.
    I am sure I can follow your steps once I rid myself of the engine protection problem but for the moment it has me miffed. Please help

  4. #204
    Lifetime Member Tre-Cool's Avatar
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    is that manifold pressure at idle in gear? i've had much bigger cams and similar lsa idle in the 65kpa range with an 800rpm idle. you would be just about triggering pe mode with that idle map.

  5. #205
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    Default Still no idle

    I had that map at idle (in neutral) see first log file. This is where the car idled somewhat albeit rich as it pulled idle spark down and this was also just prior to drilling the throttle butterfly.
    Changed B0157 to 100Kpa and logged the following start-up - still went into engine protection mode.
    I am sooo lost right now, all I see that might be wrong given all the conditions is the OL fault in the attached log but i'm still at a loss :(
    I am confident this will work but seriously need helpASA_CAM_0001.efiengine protection mode activated.efi

  6. #206
    Senior Member Naf's Avatar
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    First you shouldnt have drilled that hole, but here is how you fix it...

    C0803, C0805, and C0806 need to be increased to compensate for the added airflow. You engine is tryin to protect itself from runnin away.

    Now After you fix that, put your car in OL and tune you MAF from idle up to WOT, use the BEN factor Map in your scan software. Set your AFR and PE properly then adjust the MAF through the BEN factor in your Map options.

    I set my Afr to 14.62 and PE to 12.5. I then adjusted the timin and ran the car.

    I have found that if you Tune for AFR first then timing everything works out...
    American Muscle, European Design, Japanese Tactics

  7. #207
    Senior Member Naf's Avatar
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    Just a little note,

    If you have noticed that when you break the rpm drops below your recoomended amount no matter how high you set the min airflow. its because you need to increase B1602. Airflow correction based on coolant.

    You will have to add small amounts stowly with two restarts inorder to get a proper reaction from the engine. I have added 0.135 to my whole table and as a result my loopie idle calmed down a little.

    If you add too much you will feel the engine pull you in Drive a little too much. but with the right amount you should not see a drop in rpm below your desired amount...

    Have fun and dont forget to tune you MAF properly
    American Muscle, European Design, Japanese Tactics

  8. #208
    EFILive Reseller ringram's Avatar
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    My B1650 is running just under 3000 and its also sorted idle transition dipping when coming to a stop.
    Still no hole required.
    Get EFILive in europe (http://www.efilive.eu).
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  9. #209
    Lifetime Member hymey's Avatar
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    From what I have found with larger ci through smaller TB is no hole is required . As airspeed is much higher. Though small cube 6L is different with large overlaps. Thats on my exp tuning a lot of e38s not just one car
    Last edited by hymey; August 4th, 2012 at 01:39 AM.

  10. #210
    Lifetime Member hymey's Avatar
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    They are airflow diagnostic faults .. You have to turn those off... I always drill holes. And I fix other tunes a lot , there is a lot of work to get them perfect once you get the hang of it no probs, just experience.There is a million ways to tune them I just have found they are all different and 99% of the time it is just 1 or 2 things that make a big difference. Last 5% is always hardest!

    Go to the electronic throttle diagnostics and select 8000 rpm and 20 v then then other is a MAF fault(meant to be there). All mafless e38s will do this bolt on or cammed unless you turn those off.

    Idle dipping has nothing to do with B1650.. That is min idle airflow and integral limits combined with proportion and integral values. Then coast down spark is a huge trap aswell. B1650 is only changing idle % and different airflow numbers. I very rarely change this , if it still hunts you need a buffer .
    Last edited by hymey; August 4th, 2012 at 01:41 AM.

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