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Thread: E38 idle tuning

  1. #111
    Lifetime Member hymey's Avatar
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    Excellent work! We are getting progress. You maybe be able to drill a slightly larger hole to get more air cold but then you have to redo all the idle tables! I would be happy with what you have it is stable.

    Joel

  2. #112
    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
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    Good job excellent thread.

  3. #113
    Lifetime Member swingtan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Alchemist View Post

    My TP% was still only 20.4% even though I increased 51/52 up as high as 2.7 , I also put "1"s in the airflow multiplier up to 68deg and made no difference to TP% yet in open loop with the min air flow maxxed to 63g/s I can command the hard limit of 22% easily. So I can only achieve 860rpm even though my desired is 950-1000 at startup but its steady as a rock now! I will check again in the morning without resitting idle learn and see if it commands more
    Finally a question: immediately after startup the AFR sits as 14.4:1 for 15sec every time when cold then steps down to 13.5:1. Changing IVT multiplier only causes the 13.5:1 to dip into the 12's and makes no change to the 14.4:1 section. Is there an afterstart enrichment setting somewhere or is this altered by changing cranking fuel settings?
    Any ideas? I just think it would be better a bit richer as the idle doesn't truely stablise until it richens up to 13.5:1.
    Cheers,
    Mike

    Two points.....

    1. As Joel has said, you may need a bigger hole in the TB for the initial cold start. Looking at the shape of the commanded spark curve lends weight to this point. An average command idle spark that is higher than that set in the tune is a good indicator that you need more air flow. The only thing trowing me a bit here is that your are only pulling 12.5gm/Sec avg ( 14.2 peak ) after the start.
    2. For the lean region, there are a few things to try.
      • Ensure the VVE is correct in these cells: It looks like it's pretty good as the fueling is correct after this time.
      • Dynamics: Yes, I bang on a lot about this, but dynamics seem to come into play a lot and at times you don't always expect. try this....
        1. {B2012}: Copy the values from -40' to 8' and paste them starting at 8'. In fact, I've found this table to really need a full rework for my car and it's only got a small cam. I've reworked the table and it looks nothing like the stock one. It looks more like a VE table.....
        2. {B0182}: Cranking fuel mass blend. I think this may help a lot. I'm not totally sure how this table works but I assume smaller numbers should keep the mixture richer for longer after cranking. So maybe drop the values below 30' and see what happens.

  4. #114
    Lifetime Member hymey's Avatar
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    Looking at the cranking mass blend, also dynamic fuelling is very sensitive, dynamics can make or break a tune.

  5. #115
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    Ok further info for the needy.... in trying to get the perfect cold start (is there such a thing) I had changed my desired idle speed at 8 & 20degC from 1000rpm to 950 rpm...god knows why...but I think this relates directly to an airflow value table (that we don't have access too yet ) like in the LS1's that is translated into a throttle blade position. This maybe y I can only get 20.4% TP. I discovered this only by looking thru my old logs to discover that I used to get 21.5% throttle cold starts a couple of weeks ago and compared my tunes. The only change I could find was the desired idle speed at 8 & 20deg. Will try tomorrow and post results....you guys may already know this anyway.
    Also on cranking I have found that the engine for the first 2 secs runs on base idle timing before commencing any idle spark trim. This is helpful to know as the spark the engine runs has a massive influence on crank to idle transition and can be used to control the flare or the dip just after the actual crank flare retard bit (with the -10 max) but before the idle spark trim kicks in. Excellant results now.
    Cheers,
    Mike
    "Just a tune > yeah right !!!! "

  6. #116
    Lifetime Member hymey's Avatar
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    Mike I would be setting B1602 much higher at cold ECTs for eg, If you have a later os it will be around 0.5, this is only double hot ect values, which will not quite be enough to max the values out. If your min idle air is 8 g/s hot you may need them to be much higher to max out the throttle. I would enter say 2.00 in here at cold ects or 4 if it is earlier o/s.

  7. #117
    EFILive Reseller ringram's Avatar
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    Ok hymey post the fix up
    My tune is above. Ive not swapped the throttle yet. The only way I think it will idle with that hole is maybe with less timing.
    Thats because the blade cant close any more. But more than happy to try your tune tweaks.

    This is where I left off with the 7mm hole and some tables dropped back.
    Or should I try the tune you emailed me? (I assume it was you?)
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  8. #118
    Lifetime Member hymey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ringram View Post
    Ok hymey post the fix up
    My tune is above. Ive not swapped the throttle yet. The only way I think it will idle with that hole is maybe with less timing.
    Thats because the blade cant close any more. But more than happy to try your tune tweaks.

    This is where I left off with the 7mm hole and some tables dropped back.
    Or should I try the tune you emailed me? (I assume it was you?)
    Hi Richard I have not fixed it yet, but glad your persistant with me I hope to fix it for you. I did have your email a while back too? Can you please pm your email address for easy transfer of tunes, and I will work with you closely on it to get it sorted.!!! I have a feeling you may need to drop down quite low with B1652, Some o/s like to have it around 0.7 before it starts to respond for some unknown reason!!!!

    I will look at it today,.

    Joel

  9. #119
    Senior Member Naf's Avatar
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    I have followed everything you all have said here, and my idle is MUCH better, however i have a couple quirks i cant iron out. I am runnin a 214/220 with a 114LSA on a 6.0 2ith LS3 ported heads...

    1. My idle is lean and i cannot richen it at all without messin with the rest of the MAP
    2. My idle in Drive is a tad rough
    3. when i am stoppin from a movement, the idle dips below 500 then jumps up...See attached

    What is too much min Airflow?
    American Muscle, European Design, Japanese Tactics

  10. #120
    EFILive Reseller ringram's Avatar
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    Ok, update from me. I decided to epoxy up the hole and retry perhaps with a smaller hole.
    BUT after speaking to Jessie from Waitforme at PRI did some messing with B1650 Max ETC area and what do you know. All seems well now.
    Way, way better on cold starts than before and NO HOLE! I told it the area was smaller. Im guessing all the tables we cant see and corrections etc now think the throttle is small so it has to move the blade a larger amount.
    I cant remember if Jessie said to make the value larger or smaller, but figured Id play around anyway.
    So before anyone drills anything Id try this table first.
    I can now drive at idle in 6th gear at 32mph on the flat, no jerking or lurching. Mind you cam is only 227/243-113
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