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Thread: E38 idle tuning

  1. #341
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    Thanks, I'll check the plugs. I also have the ability to test for leaking injectors. Don't take lack of further info in the near term as a lack of interest. This is but one of about a dozen projects and it is not highest on my priority list.

  2. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yellow05C6 View Post
    Thanks, I'll check the plugs. I also have the ability to test for leaking injectors. Don't take lack of further info in the near term as a lack of interest. This is but one of about a dozen projects and it is not highest on my priority list.
    First, run the fuel pressure test in the FSM. If the system won't hold pressure, I'd pull the injectors and have them tested by an injector service. Replace as necessary.
    Pull the plugs and inspect the tips for carbon fouling.

    Good luck
    Hib Halverson
    just another f'ing "Tuner In Training"

  3. #343
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    First, let me say I'm not real active on this forum, but I am very active on the Corvette Forum's C6 ZO6/ZR1 forum and because of that, I have read lots of posts about problems calibrating LS7s with big cams. I would say that, for the type of motorsport you are doing, that RPM B-3 camshaft is way too "big". Calibration, even real good calibration, can be only modestly successful in "fixing" problems created by the wrong cam selection. If the cam selection is faulty to begin with, even a really good calibrator won't be able to fix drivability in the low mid-range, such as where in its RPM range your engine is running during the open road events you enter.

    IMO, your only choice is to accept less WOT top end performance for better mid-range and low-mid-range torque and drivability. You said 585/500 which, I assume, is at the tire. If we assume 12-15% for parasitic loss that's 644-688-hp at the flywheel. My guess is you need to lower your target to 610-635 at the flywheel and also lower your useable RPM range. Also, if being able to run WOT in sixth is your goal, you need to cam and tune your engine for good torque in the high-mid-range rather than good power at the top-end. Finally, running in sixth at 165-mph at WOT
    Hib Halverson
    just another f'ing "Tuner In Training"

  4. #344
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    I am not familiar with "XYZ" but I can tell you that, in a general sense, tuning the idle and part throttle of an E38 for an LS7 with cam and head work is difficult and time consuming. There are some tuners who don't really know how to tune idle and part throttle of engines with cams having more overlap than stock and there are some tuners' customers who don't want to spend the money it takes to calibrate part throttle because it requires a lot of time on a load-bearing chassis dyno.

    You could easily drop 800-1000 bucks with an experienced, knowledgeable calibrator just trying to get idle and part-throttle, low end and low-mid-range drivability right using a load-bearing chassis dyno. A lot of Corvetters won't spend that kind of money. Yes, you can DIY the cal, but it takes a lot of time and street driving as well as knowledge of the calibration process. Experience helps, too. Finally, if you can afford it, professional training. If you were using HPTuners, "The Tuning School" is a great choice, but I think the only, really good training for those using EFILive comes from Greg Banish at Calibrated Success. There might be other cal schools for EFILive but I'm not aware of them.

    As for your car being undriveable under 1600 unless you are accelerating, assuming a mild cam similar to, say...Katech's "Torquer 116", I'd say whomever did the current cal has more work to do with idle/part throttle.
    Hib Halverson
    just another f'ing "Tuner In Training"

  5. #345
    Lifetime Member hymey's Avatar
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    Default E38 idle tuning

    Quote Originally Posted by lbl866@aol.com View Post
    Like Hib, I'm just another "Tuner In Training". My only add to this post is that I have or had one of RPM's B-3 cam and head package that I installed on my 2012 Z and I have the cam card for that cam. I originally installed this package for a friend and later bought the car. It was tuned for him by XYZ here in Vegas. It made great power (585/ 500) but was undriveable below 1700 RPM. I run mostly open road race events and while I almost could tolerate the 1700 and below, in 6th gear at 165 on level ground it would not hold speed at WOT (not enough torque). I got a cam recommendation from Comp and changed the cam. I am hoping it fixed the torque issue and will find out next weekend but it did not solve the now 1500 RPM and below lurching. A little bit of throttle and it is OK. Cruising is impossible. I have tried HP's forum posts concerning Trailer hitching by adjusting Injector timing with no results (I may not fully understand the process). I will gladly offer the cam card specs to anyone who will share a tune for one of RPM cam and head packages that works at lower rpm's that I may use to compare to mine.
    Hi lbl . Getting the idle is straight forward and quite fast , regardless of maf or speed density . A lot really focus on fuel maps to help with these issues . I find if the idle is correct and setup right with lower and max limits . The next thing is ign timing and inj timing . Take note of part throttle tps going off and on the throttle and how much the timing changes from the idle / cruise to when throttle is applied . Some cars really have that tug feeling right on a certain kpa and TPS and they will also do it in car parks . The trick for car parks is really fine tuning the idle so it lol.

  6. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by hymey View Post
    Hi lbl . Getting the idle is straight forward and quite fast , regardless of maf or speed density . A lot really focus on fuel maps to help with these issues . I find if the idle is correct and setup right with lower and max limits . The next thing is ign timing and inj timing . Take note of part throttle tps going off and on the throttle and how much the timing changes from the idle / cruise to when throttle is applied . Some cars really have that tug feeling right on a certain kpa and TPS and they will also do it in car parks . The trick for car parks is really fine tuning the idle so it lol.
    One part of "hymey's" reply got me attention that that was his mention of "int timing." That one thing I'm really in the dark about. Does anyone know a good source of instructional information on what one can do with injector timing when trying to calibrate idle and part throttle on a heads and cam LS7?
    Hib Halverson
    just another f'ing "Tuner In Training"

  7. #347
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    Hymey,

    Does a DTC need to be set for it to use the B1703 and B1704 tables? Just confused that it mentions in description it’s used when the airflow fault codes set?

    Also when setting the B1846 Closed throttle torque table you start at 100/110 and go down what’s the lowest figure your getting to either side of the 800/1000rpm area?

    Idle has always been a pitfall and used your original way and it has improved everything so much until I run into a cold start issue but I think I have found that to be from B1219 flooding the engine.

  8. #348
    Lifetime Member hymey's Avatar
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    Hi there , sorry for late reply .

    The tables that mention the DTC failure are for speed density - mafless . When you fail the MAF these tables are used . Secondly if you want to keep the MAF you use the other tables which do not mention the DTC failure . This works as I did a cam swap last year in a VE and we kept the MAF . Works well . I believe many of the MAF issues people have with drivability are solved using this and the cars run really nicely . I was impressed with the last MAF car and I tuned this in open loop . Cam was a 227 244 114 . Wasn’t the best power cam but drove smooth and did well at last power cruise against other cammed cars.

    For the question on closed throttle torque values , I can honestly say this is not as important as getting the limits correct as mentioned above. You can log the torque value and see what it is doing then match accordingly .

    Injector timing question . IMO this should be simplified and I don’t believe using an RPM correction is required . If you search Andy Whittle - how efi works on YouTube . He has a video explaining injector timing and how adjusting this affects idle vacuum and another things that occur . He also explains how to adjust it and why .

    This is to be experimented with but my suggestion is to 0 out any rpm multiplier and work on using his method . Even take out cold start settings and flat line them to really work out where it needs to be . It will involve a bit of logging and potentially setting limits close and locking timing to see what is happening.

    I am looking at getting into this a little further as I have to tune a 240 cam in a 6 litre square port soon and I may go down this route .

  9. #349
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    can someone help me with my idle? I have a 2011 Escalade 6.2L i just did a dod/vvt delete with a btr 218/224 .553 110lsa, rebuilt the transmission and use a Circle D 278mm converter. Ive tried following along but I think im still missing something. it will start, rev up and die. pressing on the throttle does nothing. Just replaced the spark plugs with bosch double iridium. I have not drilled the tb yet. but not sure if i will need to since its a pretty mild cam with only 1* of overlap. I attached the current tune and log of the start attempts.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    2011 Cadillac Escalade ESV. BTR 218/224 .553/.553 110LSA. Built 6L80 with 278mm Circle D 2800 stall converter.

  10. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by andysc3 View Post
    can someone help me with my idle? I have a 2011 Escalade 6.2L i just did a dod/vvt delete with a btr 218/224 .553 110lsa, rebuilt the transmission and use a Circle D 278mm converter. Ive tried following along but I think im still missing something. it will start, rev up and die. pressing on the throttle does nothing. Just replaced the spark plugs with bosch double iridium. I have not drilled the tb yet. but not sure if i will need to since its a pretty mild cam with only 1* of overlap. I attached the current tune and log of the start attempts.
    I, litterly, just opened your file and saw one thing,
    Why is B1561 and B1652 so low?
    Did you mean to shut off the PID controller? Or limit it that much? I would raise them up to 2.2 each and go from there. I'll look at the file some more.

    Also, could you post the stock file? That always helps on here. I have plenty of stock files from over the years, but without the dropbox being active anymore, it's tough for some to help.

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