using 14.047 for desired AFR and not 14.63?

[Chalky]

has anyone determiend the proper formula for setting up a WB pid for E10?

[98 tigershark]

I think SSdDmon was starting to so I hope he continues that post. It looked like he uses Innovative also as I do. That is a tricky deal I think from what we have learned. Mybe Paul and Ross can change the install instructions for the EFILive LC1 in their tutorials.
Glad you re brought that up.
Thanks,
98 tigershark

[mr.prick]

has anyone determiend the proper formula for setting up a WB pid for E10?

Why would this need to be changed?
All you have to do is change EQ1 AFR for your fuel type
and all the other fuel tables will automatically change because
they are actually EQ.
Just make sure you enrichment EQ is right.

Using a Lambda based multiplier could be problematic
if your WBO2 setting for Lambda1 does not match EQ1 exactly.

[Chalky]

Fact is I do not know. PID formula for PLX is AFR={ext.ad1}*2+10.

I am not sure this formula is valid with anything other than 14.68! SSpdDOM implied that formulas would have to change if using anything other than 14.68

It would seem that if I set B3601 to 14.11, my wb would treat 14.11 as stoich but I just wanted to tap the knowledge base here to be sure.

[Chalky]

While we are on the subject, let me ask a question about e10 and AFR. This may have a simple answer but I cannot make heads or tails of it.

Example, LS1/LS6 ECM's used 14.68 as stoich which would imply that GM felt non-E fuel would run through the car or worst case, E10 fuel with a stoich 14.68 was still within margin of error. This is my conclusion and is seems reasonable.

When you look @ PE table B3618, AFR range is approx 11.8 to 12.6. This rich by normal fuel standards but almost ideal for E10 fuels in terms power making ranges.

Could this have been a GM failsafe for addressing non ethanol and E10 markets as a compromise? Appreciate any feedback on this. I may be in left field but is seems reasonable to me anyway.

[SSpdDmon]

has anyone determiend the proper formula for setting up a WB pid for E10?

Personally, I use an LM1. In the Innovate software, you can customize the analog output to read whatever you'd like. When you program it, you can do so using Lambda or AFR numbers. Straight from the instructions, it says this doesn't change anything - just the representation of the data. So...from there you need to decide what you want to work with. Then, you can program the sensor and set your PIDs.

If you want to work with AFR, you could program the following:
GAS=14.64.....0v=10.84.....5v=17.22....."({EXT.AD1 }*1.276)+10.84"
E10=14.07.....0v=10.42.....5v=16.55....."({EXT.AD1 }*1.226)+10.42"
E85=9.77.....0v=7.24.....5v=11.49....."({EXT.AD1}* 0.851)+7.24"

(All of the above are 0v=1.35 EQ and 5v=.85 EQ)

The equations are easy. The EXT.AD1 multiplier is simply the difference between your 5v and 0v values (5v-0v=difference) divided by the voltage spread (5v). So, for gas it was (17.22-10.84)/5=1.276. Then, you just add the 0v number on the end (outside of the brackets).

For logging EQ PIDs using those same AFR's (which translate into Lambdas of 0v=0.74074 & 5v=1.1765), the equation is a little more difficult. This is because EQ & Lambda aren't linear. A little Excel work and I came up with this equation:

EQ___0.0___2.0___"(-0.0008*({EXT.AD1}+1)*({EXT.AD1}+1)*({EXT.AD1}+1))+ (0.0179*({EXT.AD1}+1)*({EXT.AD1}+1))-(0.1895*({EXT.AD1}+1))+1.5223"

Someone will have to test that puppy out and see if it's right...and it's not going to be me this week (too much going on). Ideally, using those lambda numbers along with this PID equation, you should be able to disregard the AFR readout on the screen of the sensor. This means that, if I've done my math correctly, it won't matter what fuel is in the tank. If the sensor reads the mixture in terms of Lambda/EQ, this equation should back into the voltage output to provide you a stoich reading. In this case when EXT.AD1=2.975, you should be at stoich no matter what fuel type. When EXT.AD1=1.658, you should be at 1.13 EQ regardless of fuel type. And so on...

[mr.prick]

Example, LS1/LS6 ECM's used 14.68 as stoich which would imply that GM felt non-E fuel would run through the car or worst case, E10 fuel with a stoich 14.68 was still within margin of error. This is my conclusion and is seems reasonable.

Actually it is 14.63AFR = 1% Ethanol

When you look @ PE table B3618, AFR range is approx 11.8 to 12.6. This rich by normal fuel standards but almost ideal for E10 fuels in terms power making ranges.

Could this have been a GM failsafe for addressing non ethanol and E10 markets as a compromise? Appreciate any feedback on this. I may be in left field but is seems reasonable to me anyway.

Most likely for cat protection.
{B3601} set to 14.63AFR and the small fuel injectors
tell me that the LS1 was not meant for Ethanol.

[Chalky]

02 and later LS6 used 14.68 as stoich.

LS1/6 also had CAT protection, B0701.

[mr.prick]

02 and later LS6 used 14.68 as stoich.

LS1/6 also had CAT protection, B0701.

I'm stuck on the OP's OS.
What I meant was the lower AFR would help to keep them from getting into
CAT protection mode/AFR not for actual CAT overtemp protection.

14.63 or 14.68 either way Ethanol was not meant for stock LS1
I agree with you.

[Chalky]

Maybe I can ask this another way:

If B3601 is set to 14.68 and PE flatlined @ 12.6, you run non ethanol fuel, car will be happy under fuel power as we recognize 12.6 +/- to be a excellent power.

Now same conditions but we run E10 through car with no changes, would this not be a lean condition for E10 fuel?

FWIW, I always tuned in AFR, never used EQ or lambda. After listening to SSpdDmn and reviewing Greg Banish's video, I finally realized I needed to change methods.