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Thread: THROTTLE BODY IS CLOSING E39A Buick Verano T(urbo)

  1. #1
    Lifetime Member Boost's Avatar
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    Default THROTTLE BODY IS CLOSING E39A Buick Verano T(urbo)

    I have come to the point of finding the limitation of this mindbogglingly high performance 4 cylinder engine that GM made. (2.0 liter LHU Ecotec in my 2013 Buick Verano with 6T50 automatic transmission)

    Before I acquired this car, I went hundreds of miles from dealer to dealer pretending to test drive them and plugging in EFILive to see if there was support. I pulled their files and sent them to EFILive.

    Finally there was E39A support released and the trans. being an T76 similar to the Cruze which is very much supported, it was only a matter of time (in my mind) until my new special car I've worked hard for for 5 years would be fully tune-able by my favorite (and only) calibration software.

    As I lived with the car and pushed it to it's limits, I've accomplished performance that has impressed and shocked many, and have always given due credit to EFILive. But now I have hit a hard limit and there is nothing I can do about it.

    I have installed a full intake and exhaust and without EFILive the car would not even run or idle. I have used a COMPLETELY different Regal MAF, and had to modify the ECM wiring. The car runs great and very, very hard, but as I am producing 31 psi boost on the stock turbo (I know) and 361 lb-ft torque on the stock trans. (which is rated at 258 - and acts like it), I need MORE control.

    The throttle body is shutting to 40% during full acceleration due to torque reduction request from the TCM and bringing the tire shredding, turbo screaming party to a screeching halt.

    This all really makes me sick, so I am posting my logs and findings in hopes that someone can chime in and eventually help will arrive so I can beat rival cars that this engine laughs at in a Cobalt SS (LNF, tuned by competing software).
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    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by Boost; December 23rd, 2013 at 03:16 AM.
    '12 Caprice PPV 6.0 L77 - daily transportation
    8.7 @ 84 (1/8 mile) bolt-ons

    '02 Silverado RCSB 5.3 L59 - regularly street driven
    8.2 @ 86 (1/8 mile) stock cam and spray
    8.6 @ 84 (1/8 mile) cam and heads no spray

    Our YOUTUBE CHANNEL featuring the Silverado

  2. #2
    Lifetime Member Boost's Avatar
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    Just to clarify, I carefully checked my theories before posting what I think is going on. For instance, I found it hard to believe that the car is actually running 30 psi boost on the stock K04. (then again the puny Honeywell on the Cruze makes mid 20s no problem). Obviously this is way too much boost and there is no benefit to abusing everything this way when more power can probably be made with 24 psi. But still I wanted to think that the PID called "Turbocharger Boost Vacuum Pressure" is a closer reflection of actual boost (more realistic #s). I still don't know what this reading is, but I unplugged the pressure sensor right before the throttle body, and the PID "Turbocharger Boost Pressure" went dead. So we know that this PID is what is going into the throttle body. Now I have spiked this to over 46..... just check the logs.

    So that leads me to think that the surging and low power I am experiencing is most definitely compressor surge due to the astronomical boost pressures. It would make sense but here is the problem. If I shift the car manually and let off the throttle between the gears, it never surges and happily pulls and holds 30 psi. Also, compressor surge continues when it happens as long as you stay on the throttle. What I am having is only on gear changes (and we know the TCM closes the throttle then) as well as mid-pull it leaks and farts the pressure out as it pleases and the car falls on it's face completely.

    I finally got around to logging actual throttle plate position and guess what? Every time the car acts like crap, the throttle closes when I don't want it to. When it want to open, the car rips the tires of in 3rd gear and lifts up the front end like a Supra. I have dialed in the wastegate tables to hold over 25 psi at all times from a very low RPM all the way to redline.

    Except for the throttle bullshit.
    '12 Caprice PPV 6.0 L77 - daily transportation
    8.7 @ 84 (1/8 mile) bolt-ons

    '02 Silverado RCSB 5.3 L59 - regularly street driven
    8.2 @ 86 (1/8 mile) stock cam and spray
    8.6 @ 84 (1/8 mile) cam and heads no spray

    Our YOUTUBE CHANNEL featuring the Silverado

  3. #3
    Lifetime Member Boost's Avatar
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    I wonder if the computer could be fooled into thinking that it's making less torque than it is? Perhaps with the torque modeling table? I imagine about everything would need re-scaling after that.
    '12 Caprice PPV 6.0 L77 - daily transportation
    8.7 @ 84 (1/8 mile) bolt-ons

    '02 Silverado RCSB 5.3 L59 - regularly street driven
    8.2 @ 86 (1/8 mile) stock cam and spray
    8.6 @ 84 (1/8 mile) cam and heads no spray

    Our YOUTUBE CHANNEL featuring the Silverado

  4. #4
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    Hi Roland,

    We have a bunch of T76 unsupported Os's to map. The issue as always is time. It's a priority for us, but unfortunately there are a number of higher priorities before Ross gets to it.

    Can you please email me you read file, and I'll check if it's closely aligned to one we already support. If it is we may be able to speed up the process.

    Cheers
    Cindy
    I no longer monitor the forum, please either post your question or create a support ticket.

  5. #5
    Lifetime Member Boost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cindy@efilive View Post
    Hi Roland,

    We have a bunch of T76 unsupported Os's to map. The issue as always is time. It's a priority for us, but unfortunately there are a number of higher priorities before Ross gets to it.

    Can you please email me you read file, and I'll check if it's closely aligned to one we already support. If it is we may be able to speed up the process.

    Cheers
    Cindy
    Thank you so much Cindy and crew! Attached is the file, I can also e-mail it to you if needed. I completely understand but I am just freaking out because I don't like any of the alternative solutions to this...

    If we can even just turn off the transmission's torque reduction request for now, I would be happy with that.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    '12 Caprice PPV 6.0 L77 - daily transportation
    8.7 @ 84 (1/8 mile) bolt-ons

    '02 Silverado RCSB 5.3 L59 - regularly street driven
    8.2 @ 86 (1/8 mile) stock cam and spray
    8.6 @ 84 (1/8 mile) cam and heads no spray

    Our YOUTUBE CHANNEL featuring the Silverado

  6. #6
    Lifetime Member Boost's Avatar
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    Hilarious that I have to set the power to stock to keep the throttle from snapping shut:

    '12 Caprice PPV 6.0 L77 - daily transportation
    8.7 @ 84 (1/8 mile) bolt-ons

    '02 Silverado RCSB 5.3 L59 - regularly street driven
    8.2 @ 86 (1/8 mile) stock cam and spray
    8.6 @ 84 (1/8 mile) cam and heads no spray

    Our YOUTUBE CHANNEL featuring the Silverado

  7. #7
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    Boost, keep me in the loop on this if you can? Even with my manual trans GS file (the same one I sent you a while ago) there are several torque reduction perameters missing. With absolutely no tables pertaining to anything of the sort.

  8. #8
    Lifetime Member Boost's Avatar
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    I have already figured out what else is closing it. But there is no control over it like you said.
    '12 Caprice PPV 6.0 L77 - daily transportation
    8.7 @ 84 (1/8 mile) bolt-ons

    '02 Silverado RCSB 5.3 L59 - regularly street driven
    8.2 @ 86 (1/8 mile) stock cam and spray
    8.6 @ 84 (1/8 mile) cam and heads no spray

    Our YOUTUBE CHANNEL featuring the Silverado

  9. #9
    Lifetime Member EagleMark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boost View Post
    If we can even just turn off the transmission's torque reduction request for now, I would be happy with that.
    Bet the tranny would not be happy for long?

    But I can see upgrades there in your future when this is worked out! This is going to be an incredible tuner car with this taken care of. Your results are amazing as what's left on the table here...

  10. #10
    Lifetime Member Boost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EagleMark View Post
    Bet the tranny would not be happy for long?

    But I can see upgrades there in your future when this is worked out! This is going to be an incredible tuner car with this taken care of. Your results are amazing as what's left on the table here...
    Thank you very much for saying so sir. I would really like to know where / how I can upgrade the 6T50 because I would like to keep this car. It has behaved very well so far, but I suspect that is partially due to the software protection. I have more trust in GM trannies than most, if they are treated with reason and mainainted (if / when needed) they can last. My Cruze has no issues with 35k miles on 23 psi and 250 torque. And I have countless customers running 500 hp tunes on stock Allisons. But there is a limit to everything and I am quite good at reaching it...
    '12 Caprice PPV 6.0 L77 - daily transportation
    8.7 @ 84 (1/8 mile) bolt-ons

    '02 Silverado RCSB 5.3 L59 - regularly street driven
    8.2 @ 86 (1/8 mile) stock cam and spray
    8.6 @ 84 (1/8 mile) cam and heads no spray

    Our YOUTUBE CHANNEL featuring the Silverado

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