B3601 value for E10

[Hib Halverson]

​The short answer?
Yes.

The long answer?
Well...I can only tell you what I did. That I was calibrating vehicles different than your truck (01 Camaro V6, 04 Corvette, 12 Corvette) what you need to do or not do might be different.

That said...the first thing I did was test some gasoline samples from stations in my area. I found the ethanol content varied a bit between 7% and 8%, based on info I researched, 7.5% ethanol required 12.25 for a stoich. value. Now, that can be put into the cal file as your stoich AFR but....like yourself I use an LC-1 and Innovate's software only allows "custom" stoich. entries to one decimal place. I entered 12.25 and it set in the LC-1 as 12.3, so....I decided to compromise and use 12.2 in both the calibration and the LC-1. 12.2:1 is about right for 8% ethanol.

As I operate my vehicles mainly in the People's Republik of California where all we can get is "E10-which-is-really E7/E8", I do this universally on any of my vehicles and, I mean even those with out engine controls. The one car I have with no computer and a carburetor, I jet the Holley for 14.2 stoich. and 12.2 for power enrichment, but...I digress

If you're going to go this route, take "joecar's" advice and buy one of those test kits and test your fuel to see how much ethanol is actually in it.

As for figuring the proper stoich. value for blended fuel, there are differing opinions on that and the difference seems to stem from how the stoich. of gasoline is determined. In part, because it's easy, most of the time I use the attached .xls file to figure that value.
Ethanol Stoich.xls

However, for a tech. article I wrote about DIY calibration a couple of years ago, I had to research tuning for ethanol-blended fuels and I did learn of some other methods. One of them is with the formulae in this .rtf file. but the results will be slightly different.
ethanolformula.rtf

Yet a third way to do it is with the attached table, but this table is for 10% ethanol, which some might feel is close enough.
stoich%20conversion.pdf

And finally...
(sigh)
...if you like working in EQ ratio, here's yet some more blended fuel info
Target%20Desired%20Equivalency%20Table.pdf

Are we having fun yet?

I thought so.

[truethinker]

Haha. Thanks Hib. There's no non-ethanol fuel left in PA either add far as I am aware. A buddy and I ran a test kit a while back and got 8.1% average so I figure 14.2 should be fine.

I'm gearing up to do calc.ve on my truck and already changed my B3601 to 14.20. I'm trying to use lambda and eqratio for everything but my main concern is this... I replaced my narrow bands with the lc-1's. Usig the analog output for the pcm and using serial connection for EFIlive. Just trying to make sure I don't ends up with a situation where they are fighting each other. So change B3601 AND change the programming inside the lc-1's. Now to find my adaptor to hook up to the lc-1's. Haha. Haven't needed to do that for a few years

[joecar]

I'm about to start Tuning my 03 sierra and am wondering... do I need to change my B3601 to 14.12 - 14.2(depending on alcohol content) before I start tuning? I'm assuming yes.

If yes, do I then need to change the information in the software for my dual LC-1 Widebands pertaining to lambda?

Thanks

Yes, set B3601 to the stoich AFR of the fuel you're running (I see that you have tested it).


If you're using Lambda from the LC-1, then there is no need to change any info (i.e. using Innovate's LM-Programmer software)...

( if you were using AFR from the LC-1, then you would have to tell it what the stoich AFR is )

this is one of the reasons why tuning should be done using Lambda (and/or EQR which is simply the mathematical inverse of Lambda).

[truethinker]

Thats great. Thanks Joe. So, just to clarify one last point...as I'm using the lc-1 narrow band simulator output for my pcm, is there anything I need to change pertaining to the switching point and how it perceives stoich? (Hopefully i asked that in an understandable way)

[joecar]

...

I'm gearing up to do calc.ve on my truck and already changed my B3601 to 14.20. I'm trying to use lambda and eqratio for everything but my main concern is this... I replaced my narrow bands with the lc-1's. Usig the analog output for the pcm and using serial connection for EFIlive. Just trying to make sure I don't ends up with a situation where they are fighting each other. So change B3601 AND change the programming inside the lc-1's. Now to find my adaptor to hook up to the lc-1's. Haha. Haven't needed to do that for a few years

Make sure you're doing Calc.VET (it is improved over Calc.VE), see post #1 here.

Yes, correct, you have your LC-1's connected for output to PCM 's NBO2 and to FSV2's serial comms...

post some logs showing the pids GM.HO2S11, GM.HO2S21, EXT.WO2LAM1, EXT.WO2LAM2, EXT.WO2EQR1.EXT.WO2EQR2...

(notice I did not mention EXT.WO2AFR1/2... I want to purposely avoid viewing AFR).

[truethinker]

Very good, I'll do that right now.

[Hib Halverson]

Make sure you're doing Calc.VET (it is improved over Calc.VE), see post #1 here.

Yes, correct, you have your LC-1's connected for output to PCM 's NBO2 and to FSV2's serial comms...

post some logs showing the pids GM.HO2S11, GM.HO2S21, EXT.WO2LAM1, EXT.WO2LAM2, EXT.WO2EQR1.EXT.WO2EQR2...

(notice I did not mention EXT.WO2AFR1/2... I want to purposely avoid viewing AFR).

Oppps.
"joecar" is right.
My bad on this.

I didn't read your earlier post carefully and figured you were using LC-1 data into analog. He's right. With the LC-1 connected to a comm port, entering a stoich. value for E8 gas is unnecessary.

[truethinker]

So I've been having an intermittent issue where one of my led indicators for the lc-1's aren't coming on. I assumed it was an led issue as I still had serial data for both units. Hooked up EFIlive and have no signal of any kind coming from the one unit. I'll get out the dvom and do some troubleshooting after work.

[Hib Halverson]

So I've been having an intermittent issue where one of my led indicators for the lc-1's aren't coming on. I assumed it was an led issue as I still had serial data for both units. Hooked up EFIlive and have no signal of any kind coming from the one unit. I'll get out the dvom and do some troubleshooting after work.

No LED means either there's no power to the WB controller or it's doing its air calibration sequence.

[joecar]

Thats great. Thanks Joe. So, just to clarify one last point...as I'm using the lc-1 narrow band simulator output for my pcm, is there anything I need to change pertaining to the switching point and how it perceives stoich? (Hopefully i asked that in an understandable way)

It should be ok... when you log the NBO2 signal, you want to see swings from below 300 mV to above 600 mV several times per second (or faster)... if you don't see this, then you have the program the LC-1's NB analog channel to have a steeper slope on the V:AFR inverse-step-function.


( the LC-1 isn't really simulating the NBO2 signal... by having the inverse-step-function be sufficiently steep, the LC-1 is actually being a NBO2 sensor... it is driven by the actual exhaust O2 content, and because the inverse-step-function is so steep it causes the analog voltage output to switch just like an actual NBO2 sensor )