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Thread: RoadRunner guts kit?

  1. #61
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    Well I know of someone else who tried to flash in a 1024 file in to a 512k RR and got the same error I got
    So it must be the way efilive is licensed to the rr unit. I wonder if another license could be purchased for the other files? So have 2 licenses for the same RR.

  2. #62
    Lifetime Member N0DIH's Avatar
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    I'll get ahold of Craig to clarify, but from my understanding there is no such thing as a 512kRR, they are all 1024k.

    I will confirm. But if you are seeing issues, It sounds like EFILive is the problem.

    Ross/Paul should know as well. The only differences I have ever heard of are the w/flash w/o flash versions. And of course the firmware. I would ensure you are on 12.14R.

    Mine's in the car, but later today I will try to blow in a 1MB LS1 file in my RR that is in my 717 PCM.
    I owned a Ford once, ONCE.......

  3. #63
    Lifetime Member N0DIH's Avatar
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    Try this too: http://www.moates.net/documentation....entation_id=34

    I sent Craig an email, hopefully he will respond.

    But the point I bring is there is 2 PCM's, 512k and 1024k, both share the identical memory, 28F800. the RR knows not what PCM it is in. Which is why you flash RR with the car/truck OFF, it can't even know, it has no way to. I have never seen GM put a 512k part on a GM/Delco/Delphi PCM yet. They put 1MB parts on and programmed them with 512k code.

    I with some tweaking to the pcm.dat, I bet that you can put a 28F800 in a black box PCM and make it work.

    Do you have the latest pcm.dat from Tunercat? That is key. It is up to "HT", so if yours is out of date that might explain a lot. Same with EFILive, is it latest version? An update came through yesterday.
    I owned a Ford once, ONCE.......

  4. #64
    Lifetime Member mr.prick's Avatar
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    RoadRunner LS1 Realtime Emulation PCM
    Why is there a choice between the to sizes?
    And what about the article i linked to in post #50?
    Its states that `03-`07 are interchangeable but nothing about `01-`02.
    Please excuse my ignorance on electronic hardware,
    but do all of the `01-`07 LS1 PCM`s have the same memory capacity
    just different processor speeds?

    It would be nice if Moates or Paul would chime in on this.
    512k RoadRunner Firmware 12.14R
    FlashScan V2 Bootblock V2.07.04 Firmware V2.07.22 EFILive V7.5.7 (Build 191) V8.2.1 (Build 181)
    LC-1 WBO2

    _________________________________________________

  5. #65
    Lifetime Member N0DIH's Avatar
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    Because the PCM is different so they have to, the RR is the same, only 1 guts kit.... Same RR. Different PCM's. The I/O and probably processor is different.

    Like I pointed out. Opening up a PCM, 99-up, the ones that are compat with a RR, ALL have the identical memory, a 28F800 Intel. RR emulates that.

    There is no such thing as a 512k RR. Only a 1024k....

    Yes I am in the industry so I have dug up on the specs on the 28F800, we are just writing to the half we want to of the 1MB part in with a 512k program. Look at the 2 timer with the OBD1 stuff, we have to write to a certain location in the memory so we can access it properly. So in the case of the 0411 PCM, it is EXPECTING to start at memory location 0x512k (just a ficticous #), as the boot loader, tells it too. So on a 1MB, you have a different boot loader, which is in the whole .cal/.tun file you have.

    I am expecting the .cal/tun is broken up in 3 parts, Boot Loader (bottom loader or top, meaning where it resides in the memory, which is the first place the processor go goes to look. IIRC the 28F800 can be either, which is unusual) The the OS (which really could be the bootloader too not sure) and the cal tables.

    So it would stack the 3 together, and the boot loader tells it where everything is.

    I bet you could put a 1MB program in a RR in a 0411 PCM ("512k pcm") in the RR and it will try to run. The processor will probably crash depending on how far different it is. As it is going to be calling for A/D input/outputs that are likely not there. So it will panic and crash. But it will take it.
    Last edited by N0DIH; February 10th, 2009 at 06:12 AM.
    I owned a Ford once, ONCE.......

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by N0DIH View Post
    Because the PCM is different so they have to, the RR is the same, only 1 guts kit.... Same RR. Different PCM's. The I/O and probably processor is different.

    Like I pointed out. Opening up a PCM, 99-up, the ones that are compat with a RR, ALL have the identical memory, a 28F800 Intel. RR emulates that.

    There is no such thing as a 512k RR. Only a 1024k....

    Yes I am in the industry so I have dug up on the specs on the 28F800, we are just writing to the half we want to of the 1MB part in with a 512k program. Look at the 2 timer with the OBD1 stuff, we have to write to a certain location in the memory so we can access it properly. So in the case of the 0411 PCM, it is EXPECTING to start at memory location 0x512k (just a ficticous #), as the boot loader, tells it too. So on a 1MB, you have a different boot loader, which is in the whole .cal/.tun file you have.

    I am expecting the .cal/tun is broken up in 3 parts, Boot Loader (bottom loader or top, meaning where it resides in the memory, which is the first place the processor go goes to look. IIRC the 28F800 can be either, which is unusual) The the OS (which really could be the bootloader too not sure) and the cal tables.

    So it would stack the 3 together, and the boot loader tells it where everything is.

    I bet you could put a 1MB program in a RR in a 0411 PCM ("512k pcm") in the RR and it will try to run. The processor will probably crash depending on how far different it is. As it is going to be calling for A/D input/outputs that are likely not there. So it will panic and crash. But it will take it.
    Currently we know you have to follow the Northstar. If you read my chip it will give me a chance to mess up that Northstar.
    Get working

  7. #67
    Member CC&M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N0DIH View Post
    Because the PCM is different so they have to, the RR is the same, only 1 guts kit.... Same RR. Different PCM's. The I/O and probably processor is different.

    Like I pointed out. Opening up a PCM, 99-up, the ones that are compat with a RR, ALL have the identical memory, a 28F800 Intel. RR emulates that.

    There is no such thing as a 512k RR. Only a 1024k....

    Yes I am in the industry so I have dug up on the specs on the 28F800, we are just writing to the half we want to of the 1MB part in with a 512k program. Look at the 2 timer with the OBD1 stuff, we have to write to a certain location in the memory so we can access it properly. So in the case of the 0411 PCM, it is EXPECTING to start at memory location 0x512k (just a ficticous #), as the boot loader, tells it too. So on a 1MB, you have a different boot loader, which is in the whole .cal/.tun file you have.

    I am expecting the .cal/tun is broken up in 3 parts, Boot Loader (bottom loader or top, meaning where it resides in the memory, which is the first place the processor go goes to look. IIRC the 28F800 can be either, which is unusual) The the OS (which really could be the bootloader too not sure) and the cal tables.

    So it would stack the 3 together, and the boot loader tells it where everything is.

    I bet you could put a 1MB program in a RR in a 0411 PCM ("512k pcm") in the RR and it will try to run. The processor will probably crash depending on how far different it is. As it is going to be calling for A/D input/outputs that are likely not there. So it will panic and crash. But it will take it.
    The 512K PCM's use an intel AB28F400B memory chip, the 1 megs have an AMD AT28F800B, so to say the least they are not identical, at least not in the 12200411 and the 12589463 that I own.

  8. #68
    Lifetime Member mr.prick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N0DIH View Post
    There is no such thing as a 512k RR. Only a 1024k....
    I`m not trying to argue but my RR clearly is labeled 516k.
    If it can hold a 1mb file, cool.

    Quote Originally Posted by N0DIH View Post
    I bet you could put a 1MB program in a RR in a 0411 PCM ("512k pcm") in the RR and it will try to run. The processor will probably crash depending on how far different it is. As it is going to be calling for A/D input/outputs that are likely not there. So it will panic and crash. But it will take it.
    If you can upload a 1mb file, why do it if it will crash?
    Being able to load a file is one thing, but not being able to use it is another.

    My interest in this topic was the possibility of being able to to use the RR
    for a GEN IV motor swap.
    But I remembered that there was no LS1 based OS that is
    compatible with a 58x reluctor.
    512k RoadRunner Firmware 12.14R
    FlashScan V2 Bootblock V2.07.04 Firmware V2.07.22 EFILive V7.5.7 (Build 191) V8.2.1 (Build 181)
    LC-1 WBO2

    _________________________________________________

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by N0DIH View Post
    I'll get ahold of Craig to clarify, but from my understanding there is no such thing as a 512kRR, they are all 1024k.

    I will confirm. But if you are seeing issues, It sounds like EFILive is the problem.

    Ross/Paul should know as well. The only differences I have ever heard of are the w/flash w/o flash versions. And of course the firmware. I would ensure you are on 12.14R.

    Mine's in the car, but later today I will try to blow in a 1MB LS1 file in my RR that is in my 717 PCM.

    I am able to flash in a 1024K file with TC but not with EFILive as I have stated before, I am not able to flash in the 3800V6 file, but I know of 2 people who can and they are both running 12.14 firmware and I am running 12.13 so that must be my error for the V6 file, and it must be efilive on the not being able to put in a 1024K file.

    The PCM itself may be labeled as a 512K, but the RR's are labeled as 1024K. I opened my 512K RR pcm and the RR emualtor is labeled 1024K, and I can flash it as such with TC.

  10. #70

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    Oh my....

    The RR is capable of emulating up to 1024k. It doesn't care what PCM it is installed into personally, but it does provide some info to the software side so things can be done a bit more judiciously.

    The first 2 digits of the serial number indicate the 'intended' or 'installed' usage. This is typically either 01 (for 512k) or 02 (for 1meg). This is almost entirely specified in order to facilitate correct OS matching etc with the target device from the software perspective.

    EFI Live uses this part of the serial # to determine what types of binaries/tunes it should be allowed to upload. This typically will help to prevent confusion. As folks swap RRs across multiple PCMs, that goal won't necessarily be achieved.

    I don't believe TC has a 'check' in place on the serial # to try and determine PCM type. The 'check' or the refusal to upload/sync from EFI's side can be worked around I believe, contact Paul or Ross for details on this if necessary.

    The V6 is a different animal, mostly 512k but still not identified via 01 or 02. I think I have a placeholder in there like 04 = 'other'.

    Keep in mind that uploading a file into a RR that is installed into a DIFFERENT type PCM than what the file is intended to be functional within has no hope of working.

    Also, on the FW 12.13 -> 12.14, the only difference is a modification to smooth out the RTACS. With 12.13, it would occasionally hiccup a bit. No other changes.

    Hope this helps,
    Craig

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