Knock sensor wiring

[5.7ute]

I have finally finished installing an LS3 into my VY commodore. The question I have is in relation to the knock sensor wiring for the ls3 knock sensors. in the tune tool we get this description.
The PCM can be used with two types of knock sensors, this parameter allows you to select which type of sensor is fitted to the engine.
The standard LS1 sensor is a resonant type, these sensors are connected like so -
Sensor Bank #1 - J1,pin56
Sensor Bank #2 - J1,pin11

If the engine is fitted with flat response sensors (like the LS2 uses), then the connections are like so -
Sensor Bank #1 GND - J1,pin49
Sensor Bank #1 Signal - J1,pin09

Sensor Bank #2 GND - J1,pin50
Sensor Bank #1 Signal - J1,pin10

Only the following values may be entered into this table:
- Resonant (LS1)
- Flat Response (LS2)
Are the two grounds already wired from J1 pin 49 & 50 or do we need to add these wires ? Is J1 the red or blue connector?
Thanks in advance Mick

[mr.prick]

5985

Can the LS1 controller use LS2 style KR sensors? :confused:
I've only heard of people re-tapping the LS2 KR threads to use LS1 sensors.
But maybe that's because it's easier than adding the pins. :nixweiss:
c1 (blue) 49 & 50 and c1(blue) 9 & 10, are not used on the LS1.
C1 is probably J1.
'98-'02 PCM Pin Assignments (http://ls1tech.com/forums/conversions-hybrids/312119-ls1-swap-faqs.html)
2002 Fbody
PCM connector C1 (BLUE)

Pin Wire Color Circuit No. Function
1 BLK 451 PCM Ground
2 LT GRN 1867 12 Volt Reference- CKP Pin "C"
3 PNK/BLK 1746 Fuel Injector 3 Control
4 LT GRN/BLK 1745 Fuel Injector 2 Control
5-7 -- -- Not Used
8 GRA 596 5 Volt Reference TPS Pin "A"
9-10 -- -- Not Used
11 LT BLU 1876 KS [2] Signal Rear Sensor Pin "B"
12 DK BLU/WHT 1869 CKP Sensor Signal Pin "A"
13-16 -- -- Not Used
17 DK BLU 1225 Transmission Fluid Pressure Switch Signal B Pin "R"
18 RED 1226 Transmission Fluid Pressure Switch Signal C Pin "P"
19 PNK 439 Ignition 1 Voltage
20 ORN 340 Battery Positive Voltage
21 YEL/BLK 1868 Low Reference CKP Pin "B"
22 -- -- Not Used
23 GRA 720 Low Reference Fuel Level Sensor (Factory)
24 -- -- Not Used
25 TAN 1671 HO2S Low Signal [Bank 2 Sensor 2]
26 TAN 1667 HO2S Low Signal [Bank 2 Sensor 1]
27 -- -- Not Used
28 TAN/WHT 1669 HO2S Low Signal [Bank 1 Sensor 2]
29 TAN/WHT 1653 HO2S Low Signal [Bank 1 Sensor 1]
30-31 -- -- Not Used
32 GRA 48 CPP Switch Signal (Manual Trans.)
33 PPL 420 TCC Brake Switch Signal (Auto. Trans)
34 ORN/BLK 434 Neutral Safety Switch Signal
35 -- -- Not Used
36 BLK 1744 Fuel Injector 1 Control
37 YEL/BLK 846 Fuel Injector 6 Control
38-39 -- -- Not Used
40 BLK 451 Ground
41 -- -- Not Used
42 DK GRN 335 Low Speed Cooling Fan Relay Control (Primary fan)
43 RED/BLK 877 Fuel Injector 7 Control
44 LT BLU/BLK 844 Fuel Injector 4 Control
45 GRA 474 5 Volt Reference (A/C Refrigerant Pressure Sensor) (Factory)
46 GRA 474 5 Volt Reference (Fuel Tank Pressure Sensor) (Factory)
47 -- -- Not Used
48 GRA 416 5 Volt Reference (MAP Sensor) Pin "C"
49-50 -- -- Not Used
51 DK BLU 496 KS [1] Signal Front sensor Pin "A"
52 -- -- Not Used
53 BLK 407 Low Reference (Transmission Temperature Sensor) Pin "M"
54 BLK 407 Low Reference (MAP Sensor Ground) Pin "A"
55 -- -- Not Used
56 -- -- Not Used
57 ORN 340 Battery Positive Voltage
58 DK GRN 1049 PCM Class 2 Serial Data
59 -- -- Not Used
60 BLK 452 Low Reference TPS Pin "B"
61 PNK/BLK 632 Low Reference (Camshaft Position Sensor) Pin "B"
62-64 -- -- Not Used
65 PPL 1670 HO2S High Signal [Bank 2 Sensor 2]
66 PPL 1666 HO2S High Signal [Bank 2 Sensor 1]
67 -- -- Not Used
68 PPL/WHT 1668 HO2S High Signal [Bank 1 Sensor 2]
69 PPL/WHT 1665 HO2S High Signal [Bank 1 Sensor 1]
70 BRN 1174 Oil Level Switch Signal
71-72 -- -- Not Used
73 BRN/WHT 633 CMP Sensor Signal Pin "A"
74 YEL 410 ECT Sensor Signal Pin "B"
75 -- -- Not Used
76 BLK/WHT 845 Fuel Injector 5 Control
77 DK BLU/WHT 878 Fuel Injector 8 Control
78 -- -- Not Used
79 GRA or WHT 587 or 687 Skip Shift Solenoid Control (M/T) or 3-2 Shift Solenoid Control (A/T) Pin "S"
80 BLK 407 Low Reference ECT Pin "A"

PCM connector C2 (RED)

Pin Wire Color Circuit No. Function
1 BLK 451 Ground
2 BRN 418 TCC Solenoid - Output - PWM Pin "U"
3 -- -- Not Used
4 PNK/BLK 429 Air Injection Reaction Solenoid Relay - Coil - Control
5 -- -- Not Used
6 RED/BLK 1228 PC Solenoid Valve High Control (Sol.A) Pin "C"
7 -- -- Not Used
8 LT BLU/WHT 1229 PC Solenoid Valve Low Control (Sol.A) Pin "D"
9 DK GRN/WHT 465 Fuel Pump Relay Control [Primary]
10 WHT 121 Engine Speed Signal- Tachometer
11-12 -- -- Not Used
13 WHT 85 Cruise Control Engage Signal
14 RED/BLK 380 A/C Refrigerant Pressure Sensor Signal
15 RED 225 Generator Turn ON Signal
16 -- -- Not Used
17 DK GRN/WHT 762 A/C Request Signal
18 DK GRN 59 A/C Compressor Clutch Supply Voltage
19 -- -- Not Used
20 LT GRN/BLK 822 VSS Low Signal
21 PPL/WHT 821 VSS High Signal
22-23 -- -- Not Used
24 DK BLU 417 TPS Sensor Signal Pin "C"
25 TAN 472 IAT Sensor Signal Pin "B"
26 PPL 2121 Ignition Coil 1 Control
27 RED 2127 Ignition Coil 7 Control
28 LT BLU/WHT 2126 Ignition Coil 6 Control
29 DK GRN/WHT 2124 Ignition Coil 4 Control
30 DK BLU 229 Fuel Enable Control
31 YEL 492 MAF Sensor Signal Pin "A"
32 LT GRN 432 MAP Sensor Signal Pin "B"
33 DK BLU 473 High Speed Cooling Fan Relay Control
34 DK GRN/WHT 428 EVAP Canister Purge Solenoid Control
35 -- -- Not Used
36 BRN 436 AIR Pump Relay Control
37 DK GRN 83 Cruise Control Inhibit Signal
38 -- -- Not Used
39 RED 631 12 Volt Reference CMP Pin "C"
40 BLK 451 Ground
41 -- -- Not Used
42 TAN/BLK 422 TCC Solenoid Valve Control Pin "T"
43 DK GRN/WHT 459 A/C Clutch Relay Control
44 LT GRN 1652 Reverse Lock Out Solenoid Control
45 WHT 1310 EVAP Canister Vent Solenoid Control
46 BRN/WHT 419 MIL Control
47 YEL/BLK 1223 2 - 3 Shift Solenoid Valve Control Pin "B"
48 LT GRN 1222 1 - 2 Shift Solenoid Valve Control Pin "A"
49 -- -- Not Used
50 DK GRN/WHT 817 VSS Signal
51 YEL/BLK 1227 TFT Sensor Signal Pin "L"
52 -- -- Not Used
53 GRA/BLK 1687 Ignition Retard Signal EBCM only (Factory)
54 PPL 1589 Fuel Level Sensor Signal (Factory)
55-56 -- -- Not Used
57 PPL 719 Low Reference IAT Pin "A"
58-59 -- -- Not Used
60 BRN 2129 Low Reference Ignition Coils bank 1 (1-3-5-7)
61 BRN/WHT 2130 Low Reference Ignition Coils Bank 2 (2-4-6-8)
62 -- -- Not Used
63 PNK 1224 Transmission Fluid Pressure Switch Signal A Pin "N"
64 DK GRN 890 Fuel Tank Pressure Sensor Signal (Factory)
65 -- -- Not Used
66 PPL/WHT 2128 Ignition Coil 8 Control
67 RED/WHT 2122 Ignition Coil 2 Control
68 DK GRN 2125 Ignition Coil 5 Control
69 LT BLU 2123 Ignition Coil 3 Control
70-75 -- -- Not Used
76 LT GRN/WHT 1749 IAC Coil B High Control Pin "B"
77 LT GRN/BLK 444 IAC Coil B Low Control Pin "A"
78 LT BLU/BLK 1748 IAC Coil A Low Control Pin "C"
79 LT BLU/WHT 1747 IAC Coil A High Control Pin "D"
80 -- -- Not Used

[5.7ute]

Thanks for that mr.prick. Apparently with the wiring done the ls2 type knock sensors work just fine. I have the adaptor harness hooked up & I am pretty sure I have a few spare pins left over so I will be giving this a go later today. I will post up the results once tested.
Cheers mick

[S10Wildside]

VERY good question. Recently I built an engine harness to accomodate both types of sensors. I'm not sure how the customer is going to go about this, but both types were requested.

J1 (or C1) is the BLUE connector.

All LS controller schematics I've seen only use the 1 wire resonant type sensors.

As far as the 1 wire knock sensor being used on LS2 and newer engines (tap side of block), I think it's simply an ignorance thing where they just don't know that the 2 wire flat response type sensors can be used with the LS1 PCM. However, I've not yet seen anyone try this. But I'm curious.

[mr.prick]

What about the Knock tables?
What .bin are you going to use for reference?

[5.7ute]

What about the Knock tables?
What .bin are you going to use for reference?

That is a good question.
I was going to see if they can be dialled in on the standard tables. Otherwise I am sure Paul or Ross can make me up a COS in there spare time :angel_innocent:

[5.7ute]

The repin has been done to use the LS3 sensors. One thing to note is that the description in the tune tool is wrong (as shown on the info mr.prick posted as well as verified with the pin outs on my PCM) it should read
Sensor Bank #1 - J1,pin51
Sensor Bank #2 - J1,pin11
not
Sensor Bank #1 - J1,pin56
Sensor Bank #2 - J1,pin11
The knock software needs adjusting to make it more sensitive, but exactly how much I am yet to determine. Hopefully tonight the rest of the tune is ready to get it on the dyno to do some testing. The standard ls1 KR pid still logs knock with the change in pins if anyone was wondering (like I was)

[GMPX]

Thanks, you are correct, you know what is odd, in the description file I have here I have Pin 51 in there :nixweiss:

[5.7ute]

Thanks, you are correct, you know what is odd, in the description file I have here I have Pin 51 in there :nixweiss:

My mistake. I did all this on the work computer that only has a dial up connection, hence an older version (build 66, :doh2:). Obviously this has since been rectified as my tuning laptop shows the correct pin positions.

[mr.prick]

Hey Mick,
how did this work out?

[5.7ute]

Not very well actually. I ended up going back to the LS1 sensors just to get the thing on the road.

[mr.prick]

Did they trip off constantly or not at all?

[5.7ute]

They acted weird. The main issue was once you got them to trip they wouldnt decay out. Plus various other problems. I didnt have the time to keep messing so eventually gave up.

[DrX]

Are you seeing any knock at all in your logs? I also have the LS1 sensors screwed into the sides of my LSX block and I have not seen ANY KR in my logs, which is not normal for even a stock engine under cruise conditions. Did you make any changes in the tune re sensitivity for the new sensor location? Its a little scary boosting 20 psi not knowing if any knock will be detected or not.

[5.7ute]

During summer I was getting some audible knock which was corresponding in the logs. They do appear to be a bit less sensitive in the new position, either that or the old position was prone to false triggering from the valvetrain.

[DrX]

During summer I was getting some audible knock which was corresponding in the logs. They do appear to be a bit less sensitive in the new position, either that or the old position was prone to false triggering from the valvetrain.

Good to hear that yours are actually working. I Don't want to rely on my ears because all I hear is exhaust roar and blower whine at WOT.

I have found many similar threads on various forums, some as old as 2005. The original posters had the same issue as I have. There are always very few responses and none of the threads end with a solution/resolution.

[TipsyMcStagger]

Good to hear that yours are actually working. I Don't want to rely on my ears because all I hear is exhaust roar and blower whine at WOT.

I have found many similar threads on various forums, some as old as 2005. The original posters had the same issue as I have. There are always very few responses and none of the threads end with a solution/resolution.

Bumping an old thread:

I have an '06 GTO LS2/T56 (24x) with the E40 PCM. This is going into a BMW and for various reasons, I think I'd be better off ditching the E40 and going with an LS1 computer.

I'd like to be able to retain the LS2 knock sensors because using the large LS1 sensors in the stock LS2 external location could end up causing both header and steering shaft clearance issues.

Has there been progress on tuning/setting up the LS1 computer to run properly with the LS2 knock sensors?

TIA.

Tipsy

[johnv]

I would also be interested to know, I will be running an LS2 style cast block (LY6) with an LS1 PCM and don't have space for the LS1 knock sensors, so was hoping to run LS2 sensors.