Strange AFR from Serial ZT-2 -- OFF by Factor of 10!

[mirage]

I recently changed from an Innovate LC1 to a Zeitronix ZT-2 serial wideband controller. Since the change I've noticed some strange AFR's when the ZT-2 is plugged in using the serial cable to the flashscan V2. AFR readings seem to be off by a factor of 10. For example when the actual AFR is 14.5 the flashscan will show 1.45 during BBL. I think I have everything configured correctly, but I've got to be missing something simple. I have the following settings:

Com Port: Wideband
Wideband: Zt-2
Format: 1st wide band only
Data Display: AFR only

Do I need to create a calc PID or log a different pid for the ZT-2. I'm currently using EXT.WO2AFR1 same as I did for the LC1.

[joecar]

Hi mirage,

I pm'd Tech Support, they may ask for more info.

[mirage]

Do the custom PID properties in V8 work with BBL? It looks like I should be able to adjust the output by a factor of 10, but changing these values doesn't seem to affect BBL or the logs. I know this would be a work around if it worked...

Oh and thanks Joecar we the users of the forum appreciate the help!

[Tordne]

I've emailed Paul already based on your email to us. I'm sure it will be something simple :)

[Blacky]

Thanks for uncovering that bug. It was a fault in the FlashScan firmware. It will be fixed in the next update.

Regards
Paul

[mirage]

Thanks for uncovering that bug. It was a fault in the FlashScan firmware. It will be fixed in the next update.

Regards
Paul


So does that mean it was truly off by a factor of 10? If so I can make a calc pid that simply multiplies the EXT.WO2AFR1 by 10 to get me by until the next release of the firmware?

[Tordne]

I would say it is going to be a presentation but, with the PID scaling simply being incorrect. You'be should be safe to create a CALC PID if you wanted. We are hoping to have a new firmware out pretty soon to correct a number of outstanding issues if you're not desperate.

[mr.prick]

Does it have the option of Lambda/EQ?
Lambda*stoich AFR=AFR
stoich AFR/EQ=AFR

You may even need to use analog until the next update. :eek:

[mirage]

Does it have the option of Lambda/EQ?
Lambda*stoich AFR=AFR
stoich AFR/EQ=AFR

You may even need to use analog until the next update. :eek:

Looks like it I'll try it tomorrow, but good to know the firmware update is coming soon. Thanks guys.. I appreciate the help!

[NoJuice]

Did this ever get worked out?

Mirage can you show me how you connected the Zt2 to the flashscan?

[mirage]

Did this ever get worked out?

Mirage can you show me how you connected the Zt2 to the flashscan?

Yes the latest firmware and software resolved the issue.

The zt2 is connected via the serial cable that came with it AND the original serial to phone type connector. I don't remember if you have to use a null modem or not between the two. Will check my setup tonight

[NoJuice]

Yes the latest firmware and software resolved the issue.

The zt2 is connected via the serial cable that came with it AND the original serial to phone type connector. I don't remember if you have to use a null modem or not between the two. Will check my setup tonight

Cool thanks, let me know

[mirage]

You do need the null modem adapter. I have this one:

http://www.sfcable.com/30D1-C1.html

Have fun the ZT2 is awesome... Just plug in and go.

[Chalky]

OK. I just received my ZT-3. Anyone making a serial cable yet for the Zeitronix WB? I am reluctantly using my LC-1 with a TQ cable. So far, it is great. The serial cable makes for a cleaner setup. Just wish I had a serial cable for the Zeitronix ZT-3 as well.

[TAQuickness]

Thanks for the heads up Chalky - I'm working on it.

[Chalky]

Thanks TAQ! :)

[NoJuice]

Well I'm still not able to get this connected. The photo shows the RJ12(phone) cable from the Zt2 with the RJ12-DB9 adapter that came with the Zt2. Why can't the V2 be set up so I can just plug the RJ12 from the Zt2 directly into the V2?

The black adapter is the null modem connector with a gender changer on each end, even with this contraption the little screws won't all work. Thus not making a great connection. Then I still need another DB9-RJ12 adapter and a short male-male phone cord to plug into the V2. This things going to be foot long by the time I get done.

Is this correct? or am I missing something?

Another thing, I have fuel pressure signal running through this cord from the Zt2 as well. Will I be able to log this in the V2?

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d8/NoJuice/V2Zt2.jpg

[NoJuice]

Thanks for the heads up Chalky - I'm working on it.

TA - I assume you could make a cable that just converts the male RJ12 from the Zt2 to a male RJ12 with the pin swap into the V2?

[Blacky]

Another thing, I have fuel pressure signal running through this cord from the Zt2 as well. Will I be able to log this in the V2?
As far as I am aware the Zt2 does not provid e fuel pressure signal, unless you are using the USER defined values in the Zt2-s data stream.
If that is the case FlashScan does not currently log the USER defined values.

Regards
Paul

[joecar]

Well I'm still not able to get this connected. The photo shows the RJ12(phone) cable from the Zt2 with the RJ12-DB9 adapter that came with the Zt2. Why can't the V2 be set up so I can just plug the RJ12 from the Zt2 directly into the V2?

The black adapter is the null modem connector with a gender changer on each end, even with this contraption the little screws won't all work. Thus not making a great connection. Then I still need another DB9-RJ12 adapter and a short male-male phone cord to plug into the V2. This things going to be foot long by the time I get done.

Is this correct? or am I missing something?

Another thing, I have fuel pressure signal running through this cord from the Zt2 as well. Will I be able to log this in the V2?

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d8/NoJuice/V2Zt2.jpg


You need a null modem adapter not a gender bender.


This thread explains why two DCE devices (or two DTE devices) cannot be directly connected without a null modem adapter:
http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?9340-serial-port-cable-that-goes-to-v2

PC = DTE device
V2 = DCE device
WB = DCE device

So, the following connections work:
- PC -> V2
- PC -> WB
- V2 -> null modem adapter -> WB

A null modem adapter says "null modem" on it.


Your cable looks over-engineered... look at post #3 in that thread... or cut up your cables and solder them together with the Tx/Rx pins swapped.

[mr.prick]

From the picture it looks like there are 2 null modems connected to a gender-bender. :confused:
Try using one null modem and the V2's serial cable to the DB9-RJ12 adapter.

BTW your V2 appears to be faded or are the blue now?
http://forum.efilive.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10621&d=1304290299

[NoJuice]

For some reason my V2 did not come with the DB9 Serial cable????? I thought it was suppose to?


As far as I am aware the Zt2 does not provid e fuel pressure signal, unless you are using the USER defined values in the Zt2-s data stream.
If that is the case FlashScan does not currently log the USER defined values.

Regards
Paul

Yeah the fuel pressure is a USER input into the Zt2. So yes its in the USER defined value of the data stream. Oh well, maybe someday.


You need a null modem adapter not a gender bender.


This thread explains why two DCE devices (or two DTE devices) cannot be directly connected without a null modem adapter:
http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?9340-serial-port-cable-that-goes-to-v2

PC = DTE device
V2 = DCE device
WB = DCE device

So, the following connections work:
- PC -> V2
- PC -> WB
- V2 -> null modem adapter -> WB

A null modem adapter says "null modem" on it.


Your cable looks over-engineered... look at post #3 in that thread... or cut up your cables and solder them together with the Tx/Rx pins swapped.

The black piece is a female-female null modem connector, the other two are just gender benders. I think I need to get the smaller null modem in that other post, which is a male-male connector

[mr.prick]

For some reason my V2 did not come with the DB9 Serial cable????? I thought it was suppose to?

If bought new, it should have. -> Spare Parts (http://www.efilive.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=61)



The black piece is a female-female null modem connector, the other two are just gender benders. I think I need to get the smaller null modem in that other post, which is a male-male connector

Looks like I had it backwards. :hihi:
With the pinout above can you just plug the zt-2 cable into the V2? :nixweiss:

[NoJuice]

If bought new, it should have. -> Spare Parts (http://www.efilive.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=61)



Looks like I had it backwards. :hihi:
With the pinout above can you just plug the zt-2 cable into the V2? :nixweiss:

Yeah I need the third cable down on the "Spare Parts" page.

The Zt2 cable physically plugs into the V2 but in order for it to work you need to swap the two pins, hence the need for the null modem connector and the serial cable shown above.

[Blacky]

Yeah I need the third cable down on the "Spare Parts" page.

The Zt2 cable physically plugs into the V2 but in order for it to work you need to swap the two pins, hence the need for the null modem connector and the serial cable shown above.

The serial cable was removed from the parts list for FlashScan about 6-9 months ago.
It was been re-introduced as standard about 1 month ago.

In the US you can purchase spare serial cables for EFILive's distributors, listed here:
http://www.efilive.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=60&Itemid=153

Regards
Paul

[NoJuice]

The serial cable was removed from the parts list for FlashScan about 6-9 months ago.
It was been re-introduced as standard about 1 month ago.



Hmmm.....thats odd, got this a couple weeks ago. Maybe my box got missed then.

[Blacky]

Hmmm.....thats odd, got this a couple weeks ago. Maybe my box got missed then.
Send me ([email protected]) your shipping address and I'll send you a serial cable.
Regards
Paul

[NoJuice]

Email sent

[Blacky]

The serial cable was removed from the parts list for FlashScan about 6-9 months ago.
It was re-introduced as standard about 1 month ago.
Regards
Paul

Correction. The serial cables are being added back into the product in the September 2011 shipments from EFILive. So the boxed product with serial cables will start to filter out to Resellers/Customers after that.
Sorry for any confusion. I should have checked my facts before posting...

Regards
Paul

[Chalky]

For JoeCar

[joecar]

Hi Dave,

From that pdf, the Zt-3 kit looks like it contains a Zt-2 wideband...

you will need a null modem adapter (or cable modification) and V2 should be able to read the AFR and lambda from it.

[Chalky]

Thanks Joe. I wasn't sure but thought I would check with you. After 4 days of trying this and that, Zeitronix asked me to send it back.

[trimchip]

Not knowing about this thread, I just plugged my ZT-2 into my V2 - scrolled through the menu, found ZT-2 - and it immedately communicated with the V2. Showing AFR on V2 display, and logging correctly :-)

Hope you guys are doing well also.

[trimchip]

I did not do any cable modification either . . .

[Blacky]

Not knowing about this thread, I just plugged my ZT-2 into my V2 - scrolled through the menu, found ZT-2 - and it immedately communicated with the V2. Showing AFR on V2 display, and logging correctly :-)

Hope you guys are doing well also.

Thanks for the feedback.
If/when you get a chance, can you try logging the AFR in the V7.5 Scan Tool software. I've had reports that the AFR stays frozen on a single value. It would be helpful to see the results from your setup.

Regards
Paul

[Chalky]

Back from the dead! :) the Zeitronix system are just absolutely flat reliable. Even better with a serial cable.!!

[trimchip]

Apparantly , I WAS using a crossed DB-45 (or something). because I tried using a longer DB-45 cable, and then it did NOT work . . .

[trimchip]

But I do have a Q I hope some of you guys can help me out with. . . I want to use RTACS (of course) along with my roadrunner. According to the help context, I`m to replace "B0101.RRR=CALC.BEN_LC11" with what is aaplicable for my WB system. There is none for Zeitronics as far as I can say. My commanded fuel table (B3647) is "1" which i suppose corresponds to a "Ben figure (1)", not a "AFR figure (14,7)" which is what I`m logging with my serial connection to my EFI LIVE V2.

I have not tried it yet, but I guess modifying my cal_links.txt file to B0101.RRR=EXT.WO2AFR is going to be like comparing apples to pears (Compare 1 to 14.7)?

I hope I managed to explain this in a undestndable way, and I`m open to input`s/questions and corrections :-)

[Blacky]

If you're using the serial wideband connection, then you should use one of the following BEN factor PIDs, depending on your target controller type.
When using the serial interface on any band controller, you need to use these PIDs.


CALC.BEN1 F54C CLC-00-960 factor WO2-Serial "BEN Factor Bank 1, Serial Wideband, LS1 style"
CALC.BEN2 F54D CLC-00-961 factor WO2-Serial "BEN Factor Bank 2, Serial Wideband, LS1 style"
CALC.BEN1_B F54E CLC-00-962 factor WO2-Serial "BEN Factor Bank 1, Serial Wideband, LS2 style"
CALC.BEN2_B F54F CLC-00-963 factor WO2-Serial "BEN Factor Bank 2, Serial Wideband, LS2 style"
CALC.BEN1_E38 F580 CLC-00-1012 factor WO2-Serial "BEN Factor Bank 1, Serial Wideband, E38 style"
CALC.BEN2_E38 F581 CLC-00-1013 factor WO2-Serial "BEN Factor Bank 2, Serial Wideband, E38 style"
CALC.BEN1_E67 F582 CLC-00-1014 factor WO2-Serial "BEN Factor Bank 1, Serial Wideband, E67 style"
CALC.BEN2_E67 F583 CLC-00-1015 factor WO2-Serial "BEN Factor Bank 2, Serial Wideband, E67 style"

For each of those BEN factor PIDs, you'll need to select the required PIDs. You can see the required PIDs by right clicking on the BEN factor PID (in the F8 tab page) and selecting "More info...".

Regards
Paul

[joecar]

You're using V2 to read serial AFR from your Zeitronics wideband... so then you want to set B0101.RRR to the BEN pid as Paul said above..


Your B3647 = 1 means it is commanding EQR 1 (which corresponds to the stoich AFR, see B3601);

BEN = 1 means that the wideband measured AFR equals the commanded AFR;

BEN = measured AFR / commanded AFR = measured Lambda / commanded Lambda = commanded EQR / measured EQR


If you look at BEN1 you will see that it is defined as {EXT.WO2AFR1}/{GM.AFR}.

I prefer to use EQR instead of AFR for various reasons, I use this BEN pid (from the Calc.VET tutorial): WO2BEN = {GM.EQIVRATIO}*{EXT.WO2LAM1}

[joecar]

Watch out for B3647 = 1 during tuning...

if you disabled CL/Trimming, B3647 = 1 will enable semi open loop (SOL) where STFT is used to trim to EQR 1.00, this will frustrate your tuning effort...

to avoid this during tuning, edit the 1.00 cells to 1.01 or 0.99, this will avoid SOL.

[trimchip]

Thanks a lot guy`s :-)

As I`m in another time zone than you guy`s I`ll have to wait until tomorrow before I try this.

I think I set the parameters so that STFT will not be enabled at all as I upgraded to the custom operating system.

Anyway, It`s a pretty good idea to set it to anything else than 1,00 exactly, because then it will try to reach that factor - and not be
fooled by the STFT I assume :-)

[trimchip]

Not lucky today :-( . For some reason I`m unable to get the connection between the scantool (which is set up correctly and logging fine) and the Roadrunner which is in emulation mode, showing it`s serial numbers etc. When I try to set filters I get "Scan tool must contain valid data before feedback filters can be configured".

I tried the tricks I found on the Moates site with respect to the Roadrunner without success. My roadrunner works fine in other aspects, but I can not make it work in RTACS mode along with the tune/can tool . . .

Obviously I`m missing something, but I`m a little lost right now.

[trimchip]

BTW I did check the link`s in the scan tool PID vs the tune tool links etc.

[trimchip]

And my Tune tool for sure states "RTACS is NOT active " :-(

[Blacky]

You need to have a valid data log loaded in the Scan Tool before you can configure filters for RoadRunner. However, if you don't that should not prevent RTACs from working.
13178

But for RTACs to work, you need to be either monitoring or logging data in the Scan Tool. And you need to click on the "Start RTACS" button in the Tuning Tool window.
13177

Regards
Paul

[trimchip]

I figured it out, in my set up I have to be logging. If I`m only monitoring RTACS does not activate. As soon as I logged (red button) RTACS fired up just fine :-)

[Slowrc]

Bringing this back. Looks like the ZT-2 has a 6 pin cable that would be plug n play with my V2. Sick of my LC1 and looking for new Wideband. Anyone confirm this?

[Blacky]

Bringing this back. Looks like the ZT-2 has a 6 pin cable that would be plug n play with my V2. Sick of my LC1 and looking for new Wideband. Anyone confirm this?


ZT-2 and ZT-3 are supported: http://www.efilive.com/gas-partner-products

Regards
Paul

[only ero's]

Anybody know where I can buy one of these serial cables to connect a V2 to a Zeitronix wideband? Any help is much appreciated.

[joecar]

At present, TAQ is not making those cables (correct me if I'm wrong)...

you will have to fabricate one yourself (basically, cross the signals for Tx and Rx).

[dian]

this thread got me really confused. i see zt-2 under supported products. i see the serial cable under spare parts. now fabricate the cable myself?

is anybody using the zt-2 box successfully through the serial connection? (i understand the analog output would be no problem.)

[joecar]

this thread got me really confused. i see zt-2 under supported products. i see the serial cable under spare parts. now fabricate the cable myself?

is anybody using the zt-2 box successfully through the serial connection? (i understand the analog output would be no problem.)

Yes, the V2 supports the serial comms data stream from the ZT-2... but you have to arrange for your own serial comms cable...

( all the brands of wideband have unique connectors compared to each other )


If the ZT-2 comes with a DB9-ended PC cable, then all you need is a null-modem adapter...
see post #3 here: serial-port-cable-that-goes-to-v2 (https://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?9340-serial-port-cable-that-goes-to-v2)