help kr* problem

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January 29th, 2009
blackbeast ss

help kr* problem

im having some knock retard issues,things i allready done logged the pid for the o2s and above 50% tp im seeing 950mv on both banks.i also put 1 gallon of 114 octane on less than a quarter tank,fixed dip stick cause it was hitting the header,tighten some losse brackets in engine bay and re enforced exhaust and im still seeing from 5-8 kr*.it dosent do it all the time it seems to do it when it bangs into gears,some times i could take it from a dead stop and lean into the pedal to about 100mph wot and i wont get any retard but if im crussing at about 30 mph and a go wot it will down shift and i get knock confused.gif at wot im seeing about 10.7-11.4 AFR and only changes that were made were build trans and pi vigilante 2600 stall 10.5 multi disk.......anything else i should check before i try adjusting the knock sensors?

i got a 2006 ss silverado my mods are volant cai with ram air tube, magnaflow custom exhaust, dmh ecutouts, LT headers, cat delete, 8.5 msd wires, csr catch can, tb coolant bypass, magnacharger crank pinning kit, 160 stat, fully built 4l65e, transgo-hd2 shift kit, pi vigilante 10.5 triple disk 2600 stall, justin tune, tru cool trans cooler, radix mp112, 2.8 pulley, bigger heat exchanger, joe gibs carbon fiber cover, custom delfi 60lb injectors, (2) 100 mm pulleys, efilive v2, gatoback belt, phantom2 boost & vac gage, aem wideband
January 30th, 2009
joecar

Hi BBSS, welcome to the forum...:cheers:

Did KR just start showing up...?
Is it audible (might be hard to hear over exhaust)...?

If real knock just started showing up, there may be several things to consider:
- carbon deposits: run top engine cleaner thru (I don't know to do it with a boost adder);
- check spark plugs for gap too big;
- check MAF is reading good, clean it;
- check other sensors are good (IAT, ECT);
- check the knock sensors are good;

Post some logs and your tune file (if you can).
February 4th, 2009
blackbeast ss

Quote:

Originally Posted by joecar

Hi BBSS, welcome to the forum...:cheers:

Did KR just start showing up...?
Is it audible (might be hard to hear over exhaust)...?

If real knock just started showing up, there may be several things to consider:
- carbon deposits: run top engine cleaner thru (I don't know to do it with a boost adder);
- check spark plugs for gap too big;
- check MAF is reading good, clean it;
- check other sensors are good (IAT, ECT);
- check the knock sensors are good;

Post some logs and your tune file (if you can).

could you give me your email adress so you could try posting my logs and tune.i tried to post them but dont know how
February 5th, 2009
ls1vt209

Email them to [email protected] and I will post them for you.
February 5th, 2009
joecar

Yes, you can email the files to either of us (I replied to your pm before seeing the previous 2 posts... ls1vt209 beat me to it...:cheers:)

Quote:

To post files in a thread:
- type in your reply text,
- press Go Advanced,
- press Manage Attachments (scroll down to see this button), this causes the attachments window to pop up,
- in the pop up window, press Browse and locate/select the file you want to attach, click OK,
- in the pop up press Upload, wait for it to finish uploading/attaching,
- close the pop up window,
- finish typing your reply,
- submit your reply.
February 5th, 2009
ls1vt209

3 Attachment(s)

As requested. Sorry haven't had a chance to have a look for you.

Attachment 4677

Attachment 4678

Attachment 4679
February 5th, 2009
blackbeast ss

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ls1vt209

As requested. Sorry haven't had a chance to have a look for you.

Attachment 4677

Attachment 4678

Attachment 4679

this log was done right before my new trans and pi vig.it was at the track with no knock
February 6th, 2009
blackbeast ss

anybody:nixweiss:
February 6th, 2009
joecar

I'll be able to view those 4 files in more detail later tonite or tomorrow (I'm on my Mac right now).
February 7th, 2009
joecar

BBSS,

This is not be the problem, but do set the out-of-range tables to in-range values (use max-1 or min+1) and save the file:

Quote:

Originally Posted by tunetool

Out of Range calibration summary: 10:14:13 am, Saturday Feb 07, 2009

Engine Calibration.Abuse Management
{B1207} Abuse Management Vehicle Speed Threshold, was out of range when loaded.

Transmission Calibration.Trans Pressures
{D0701} Base Pressure 1->2 Shift, contained one or more out of range values when loaded.
{D0702} Base Pressure 2->3 Shift, contained one or more out of range values when loaded.
{D0703} Base Pressure 3->4 Shift, contained one or more out of range values when loaded.
February 7th, 2009
joecar

This is also not the problem, but I would set D0961, D0962 to 100% all across...

if you need to adjust part throttle downshift timing, edit the PT upshift/downshift tables (under Shift at VSS).
February 7th, 2009
blackbeast ss

Quote:

Originally Posted by joecar

BBSS,

This is not be the problem, but do set the out-of-range tables to in-range values (use max-1 or min-1) and save the file:

how do i do that....thanks joecar
February 7th, 2009
joecar

2 Attachment(s)

Kr

Questions:

- can you hear it knocking...?
- did it start showing up immediately as a result of the stall/trans install...?
- check that your spark plug gap is correct (and suitable for boost);
- check your spark plugs for carbon fouling;
- check your PCV plumbing and intake manifold for evidence of oil;
- check/clean your MAF sensor;

If you ran 114 then the knock may not be fueling related...

Observations:
- your wideband indicates you are running richer than commanded...
- you have boost, and your MAP sensor only goes to 1 bar;
- your MAF sensor is getting up there (481 g/s), it's approaching the PCM's limit.
- your OS doesn't support boost (altho it supports ethanol).
- your timing B5913 seems high for boost.
- the second WOT run in "log correct afr pid.efi", FUELSYS momentarily goes to CL during WOT (on the upshift) and this seemed to induce KR (see pic)... I don't understand why it went CL on the upshift?
- the first WOT run in the same file, show low/medium load knock, leads me to think it's not due to fueling (see list of items above);

I though a looser stall "softened" the load on the motor...
if that it the case, then the PCM is looking up timing for a lower load...
you should maybe reduce your timing tables B5914/B5913.

If you log GM.DYNCYLAIR (2 channels) we can reference B5914/B5913 easier...
but if you do this remove 1 other pid (like IBPW2 (it seems to follow IBPW1 always)) to keep channel count at 24 or less.
February 7th, 2009
joecar

Out-of-range (OOR) values

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackbeast ss

how do i do that....thanks joecar

In the tables listed as OOR, see the cells marked with blue dog-ear corners, take note of the values, enter some value that is in range (like min+1 or max-1), do this on all OOR cells, then save file, exit tunetool...

then re-open tunetool, go to those same tables and insert the old values back in those cells, save file, exit tunetool, reopen and verify no out-of-range messages.

Explanation: when the tunetool sees an OOR value, it displays the closest of min or max... when you then enter min or max, the tunetool thinks you did not edit the cells (since it compares what you entered to what it was displaying)... so you have to enter something different and save/exit, reopen and enter your proper min or max... little bit tricky.
February 7th, 2009
blackbeast ss

Quote:

Originally Posted by joecar

Questions:

- can you hear it knocking...?
- did it start showing up immediately as a result of the stall/trans install...?
- check that your spark plug gap is correct (and suitable for boost);
- check your spark plugs for carbon fouling;
- check your PCV plumbing and intake manifold for evidence of oil;
- check/clean your MAF sensor;

If you ran 114 then the knock may not be fueling related...

Observations:
- your wideband indicates you are running richer than commanded...
- you have boost, and your MAP sensor only goes to 1 bar;
- your MAF sensor is getting up there (481 g/s), it's approaching the PCM's limit.
- your OS doesn't support boost (altho it supports ethanol).
- your timing B5913 seems high for boost.
- the second WOT run in "log correct afr pid.efi", FUELSYS momentarily goes to CL during WOT (on the upshift) and this seemed to induce KR (see pic)... I don't understand why it went CL on the upshift?
- the first WOT run in the same file, show low/medium load knock, leads me to think it's not due to fueling (see list of items above);

I though a looser stall "softened" the load on the motor...
if that it the case, then the PCM is looking up timing for a lower load...
you should maybe reduce your timing tables B5914/B5913.

If you log GM.DYNCYLAIR (2 channels) we can reference B5914/B5913 easier...
but if you do this remove 1 other pid (like IBPW2 (it seems to follow IBPW1 always)) to keep channel count at 24 or less.

- can you hear it knocking...?no kind of hard with the exaust
- did it start showing up immediately as a result of the stall/trans install...?yes
- check that your spark plug gap is correct (and suitable for boost);new plus gapped to 0.35 tr6
- check your spark plugs for carbon fouling;good
- check your PCV plumbing and intake manifold for evidence of oil;checked and its fine
- check/clean your MAF sensor;cleaned maf last week...

about the riches and think my wideband sensor is bad i need to replace it that started to happend about two months ago and i wasnt getting any knock ok i will do another log with that pid
February 7th, 2009
blackbeast ss

2 Attachment(s)

ok heres 2 more logs with the pid you requested.......i hit more kr*in these to logs only cahnges i did were fixed the out of range and d0961 d0962.......and the wide band it self is reading mid to low 11 afr on my gage but on efilive its not reading correctly its going as low as 8.9 afr so my wideband is fine
February 7th, 2009
driver456

Check and make sure your header's or exhaust isn't banging against anything.................Paul
February 7th, 2009
joecar

Thinking Out Loud (TOL):

I think the cylinder airmass may be wrong and the PCM is looking up the wrong timing.

Also, in those two logs (20, 21), there are 3 instances where the PCM enters CL momentarily during WOT (causing AFR to spike to stoichiometric) and KR registers shortly thereafter.
February 8th, 2009
joecar

Quote:

Originally Posted by joecar

I though a looser stall "softened" the load on the motor...
if that it the case, then the PCM is looking up timing for a lower load...
you should maybe reduce your timing tables B5914/B5913.

I think maybe this is what is happening.
February 8th, 2009
blackbeast ss

Quote:

Originally Posted by joecar

I think maybe this is what is happening.

how much timming do you think i should take out?
February 9th, 2009
joecar

Try say 5 degrees from the general area in B5913 where KR is happening (see how DYNCYLAIR_DMA and RPM index into B5913)... it is a trial and error "emprical" process...

or shift (by copy/paste) your whole table upward (if I'm thinking right) to reduce timing (since the load has decreased).
February 10th, 2009
blackbeast ss

dam bro i would hate to mess something up,im fearlly new at tunning could you give me a hand?
February 10th, 2009
joecar

1 Attachment(s)

Ok, I took newtune_for_trans0003.tun above and tweaked it a little...

I reduced your B5913 and B5914 a little... try this and see what happens... if it still knocks then it may be due to mechanical reasons (something hitting, clunking, loose, broken)... if knock persists then just go back to your 0003 timing tables.

I also did:
- fixed the OOR values like you did in your current tune,
- set the throttle kickdown tables to 100% like you did in your current tune,
- moved the WOT downshift points below the WOT upshifts,
- moved the TCC release curves down a little.

If you load the 1004 file, and load the 0003 file as the alternate tune, you can then compare the two to see what I did.
February 10th, 2009
blackbeast ss

Quote:

Originally Posted by joecar

Ok, I took newtune_for_trans0003.tun above and tweaked it a little...

I reduced your B5913 and B5914 a little... try this and see what happens... if it still knocks then it may be due to mechanical reasons (something hitting, clunking, loose, broken)... if knock persists then just go back to your 0003 timing tables.

I also did:
- fixed the OOR values like you did in your current tune,
- set the throttle kickdown tables to 100% like you did in your current tune,
- moved the WOT downshift points below the WOT upshifts,
- moved the TCC release curves down a little.

If you load the 1004 file, and load the 0003 file as the alternate tune, you can then compare the two to see what I did.

thanks bro i will load that tune tomorrow cause im verry sick and its cold out side.......im seeing 8lb of boost:rockon:
February 10th, 2009
joecar

Hope you get feeling better soon...:cheers:
February 14th, 2009
blackbeast ss

Quote:

Originally Posted by joecar

Hope you get feeling better soon...:cheers:

hey bro i tried your tune and i was still getting kr,i spend all day yesterday inspecting the truck and did not find anything wrong.so what i did was desensitize the knock sensors a little on b6235,b6244,b6250,b6255 and knock is gone....i was only seeing knock in roll wot runs when it would down shift,but when i would go wot from a dead stop no knock...........thanks for your help joecar and thanks for adjusting my trans shifts and tcc release truck feels alot better:fluffy: