bring back fish tuning.

[J.Abbott]

Ross, Paul,
I must say so that I am being fair to both parties, you guys made your decisions based on facts that 99% of us do not know maybe 100% and I respect that, nobody should tell you how to run your business. I have read though it sounds as if he was pricing units to people without doing the buying. I can say this though, Robyn and I have been talking for the past 6 months about me becoming a reseller, and I have had no less than hundreds of questions about pricing and my responsibilties as a reseller. This whole time it was clear that I had to purchase 5 units up front and then maintain certain sales though the year. Now I was not anyone to them except a company that bought a unit and some licenses. If this was not standard procedure than that is a huge issue. Anyways good luck and I will be contacting Guy about becoming a reseller or if there is a new distributor that is going to be closer to me.
Thanks
Justin

[Dale C]

I really regret this decision. At the same time I don't pretend that it is any of my business or that I know the details. I don’t feel the need to defend decisions that I make in running my business so I can understand EFI's position on that. What I am here to speak about is the positive relationship we have shared with Fish Tuning over the years.
From our first jump from LS1 edit and tunercat to real tuning software we have delt with Fish Tuning. We knew we were going to go with EFI or HP. The decision was made for us the first time we spoke with Ira and Robyn. It was not that they convinced us that EFI was better it was that they made us feel comfortable with the support. We are not a power purchaser, parts sales is a small part of our business. It is much more common for us to tune cars than to sell software. We deal with the streams more than licenses.
Where Fish Tuning has made all the difference for us is the above and beyond customer service. We have had our V2 go down a couple times. Fish has always been on the ball sending us a loaner cable and licensees to use while we were waiting on repair. They have always been there when we needed a wideband or cable overnighted making sure it went out same the day even if they had to run out to the shipper. They have always done an excellent job keeping us informed of product updates.
I do not know any of the other vendors and I do not want to sell them short on assumptions. I will say that I do not think EFI would be where it is today without Fish and obviously the reverse is true. I fear that one thing that gets overlooked is the gap between the marketing of the product and the ability of the end user. Your average guy who installs a camshaft in his car and orders software will never be able to use it. This is a unique product in that it requires a lot of knowledge in engine mechanics, physics, fuel injection operation, GM operating systems and fairly strong computer skills. There are very few people who don’t do this for a living that posses all of those skills. This is what makes customer support all that much more important with this product. It should not be overlooked that for the most part all of this support has been handled by this forum and the distributors of the product, there is no 1-800-EFI-Help number. I don’t mean to sound condensing with that statement I just think we take a working knowledge for granted at times. Most of the sales we have made have quickly eaten the profit in support time.
We have somewhere close to 100 vendors we deal with and I can’t think of any other that I would take the time to type this for. On the "dealer" or wholesale end of the performance automotive industry customer service is usually a joke, Fish has always been the exception.

Dale Clark
Tach It Up Motorsports

[TBMSport]

This is most unfortunately and regrettable news. Particularly as I had to look like a jackass to customer due to lack of ANY type of advanced notice. It's even more tragic because I've had nothing but good things to say about EFILive to people who have asked for my advice on the product, due almost entirely to the tech support I received from Ira at Fish Tuning. But it is not surprising.

Despite the always welcoming and helpful attitude that I have always received from Ira and Robin, the 'attitude' I received when inquiring about additional T43 tables made it evident that EFILive is just a business..plain and simple. Fish Tuning was Customer Support. From my experience, customer service means more to me and most people. Any business management that courts a potential customer to support its product then flatly tells them that the business operations and decisions are NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS after having the customer invest money, support and loyalty clearly no longer deserves any of it. I'm not going to beg someone to take my money, but that's me.

Clearly my opinion means little as I'm not one of the power diesel retailers of EFILive. But I can tell you one thing, clearly word of mouth and personal reputation mean nothing here, so the tech magazine article that I was just about to submit to Truckin' magazine is having every reference of EFILive deleted. Unlike some, I will not reduce myself to childish, unprofessional, and/or malicious comments about this decision or my personal encounters with EFILive management, from this day forward I will definitely refrain from saying anything positive about it.

Good luck to all parties involved.

[Blacky]

Any business management that courts a potential customer to support its product then flatly tells them that the business operations and decisions are NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS after having the customer invest money, support and loyalty clearly no longer deserves any of it. I'm not going to beg someone to take my money, but that's me.

I can't understand that point of view. Wat is it about some people that they think they have any right to be included in the way we run our business. If you purchased a vehicle from a Chevy dealer, then later GM revoked that dealer's dealership, would you expect GM to explain to you why they did that? Surely it is a confidential business arrangement between the dealer and GM. I am amazed that anyone would expect to be included in such business decisions.

I'm sorry that you ended up looking like a jackass. Fish Tuning had more than 18 months of "warnings" that they were close to being cut. That they chose not to share that information with their customers is something you should take up with Fish Tuning. Although in my opinion, that is also none of your business.

And yes, EFILive is a business, what else would you expect it to be? It is not a hobby, it is not a charity, it is a business designed to generate an income, most of which is invested directly back into the product to provide up to date vehicle support for our paying customers. If we did not run EFILive as a business it would eventually go bust and then all our users would disadvantaged.

I wish you luck with your new tuning tools, I hope you have as much success with them as you had using EFILive.

Regards
Paul

[Dynotuner]

I'm another single V2 with <20 VIN license guys chiming in, so if you care to skip the post feel free.

My EFI Live experiences with Ira and Robyn were few, but certainly positive. One repair on my V2, some VIN licenses, and then an attempt to become a reseller. After using EFI Live I recommended it to other shops. Some of the sales went to Nick at Duramaxtuner who is a great product rep and some went to other dealers. Since I was already driving sales, I thought I might add EFI Live to my company's list of available products too. I contacted Robyn, filled out the reseller's agreement and found out that I really wouldn't qualify. I was happy to buy in at 5 units, but being totally honest didn't feel like we could move more than 5 or 6 units per year. I had looked into partnering up with other small companies to perhaps make the annual sales goal and in the end decided the margin available is not worth the effort. I spoke with Donna personally at the PRI Tradeshow in Orlando and left with the impression that EFI Live would prefer not to have 20 small businesses like mine selling 5 or so units per year, but would rather have one large reseller selling 50 (yes, I did the math). Since factory engine management is not my primary business I did not pursue it any further.

It is a shame to see distributors that are as passionate as Robyn and Ira go away - my opinion of the product was enhanced by their involvement. I hope that the same level of support and commitment will continue for the U.S. customers since this is truly a great product. I use calibration software from many sources and find that EFI Live to be among the best in ease of use, accuracy, and great documentation.

Thankfully other vendors feel differently so that my company may sell their products. I'll have to assume that this move was made to improve sales or preserve margins since the previous post imply that support was not an issue. Maybe if the change fails to have the desired effect the next one can include some discount incentive that was eluded to in earlier posts that may not have been "authorized".

[Highlander]

i can't understand that point of view. Wat is it about some people that they think they have any right to be included in the way we run our business. If you purchased a vehicle from a chevy dealer, then later gm revoked that dealer's dealership, would you expect gm to explain to you why they did that? Surely it is a confidential business arrangement between the dealer and gm. I am amazed that anyone would expect to be included in such business decisions.

I'm sorry that you ended up looking like a jackass. Fish tuning had more than 18 months of "warnings" that they were close to being cut. That they chose not to share that information with their customers is something you should take up with fish tuning. Although in my opinion, that is also none of your business.

And yes, efilive is a business, what else would you expect it to be? It is not a hobby, it is not a charity, it is a business designed to generate an income, most of which is invested directly back into the product to provide up to date vehicle support for our paying customers. If we did not run efilive as a business it would eventually go bust and then all our users would disadvantaged.

I wish you luck with your new tuning tools, i hope you have as much success with them as you had using efilive.

Regards
paul

i agree!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[minytrker]

Its a bad deal all the way around when something like this happens. You have all the people posting in this thread plus more who had nothing but great dealings with Fish Tuning and are shocked and upset to loose such a valuable asset to there own business. Then you have EFI saying they wernt so great to them. I agree with EFI its a private matter and its also there choice to run there own business how they choose. I know it wasnt probably an easy decision and I hope it works out for EFI.

My personal opinion is EFI is defiantly changing directions especially in the last year or two. The price increase, the no streams for newer pcms, lack of T43 support makes it a hard sell. They may be making alot of new guys with dodge happy but there are alot of loyal gas tuners who are not happy. I know I am not alone in my views but I also know us gas tuners are not bringing in the money like the dodge guys are right now. Weather thats EFI intentions or not thats what it looks like from the outside looking in.
I also understand its 100% EFI's business to do what they want but just dont forget about us that have been around for the last 6,8,9 years.

[Blacky]

Its a bad deal all the way around when something like this happens.

Yes you are 100% right, unfortunately it is a bad situation all round. This is not something that we are happy about doing and it is not something that we wanted to happen. We really spent a lot of effort trying to make it work.

I also understand its 100% EFI's business to do what they want but just dont forget about us that have been around for the last 6,8,9 years.

We have certainly not forgotten about our gas tuners, I know its difficult looking from the outside in and not being able to see/know everything that goes on internally and more importantly why we make the decisions we do. We have a passion for tuning vehicles, we love doing what we are doing, we love seeing our customers success, made possible with EFILive. We are working really hard behind the scenes to get a replacement distributor up and running who we believe will make a big improvement to the gas side of EFILive's business.

P.S. We haven't given up on the T43, however some of the tables are kicking our ass and we haven't been able to get those figured out yet. Working very closely with some of our tuner/customers we have come up what will probably turn out to be a far more effective tuning strategy for the T43. Have you seen this thread? http://forum.efilive.com/showthread....-removal/page8 from about post #72 onwards.

Regards
Paul

[minytrker]

The price increase doesnt even effect me personally as you know how many streams I have. I was just stating what other shops tell me and the feedback I get from people when I tell them about EFI Live. I understand the increase, it makes since to me but unfortunately ALOT of people shop buy just price.. Im just relaying what I hear from people.
I know the streams are a very good deal, it didnt take me long to figure that out years ago. They always seemed like a better deal for me than for EFI in terms of money. The whole T43 comes down to time and money. Anyone buying streams has most likley figured out they have to tune x amount to break even then x amount to make it worth while. It throws a curve ball into it when you have to use a $99 license for HPT to change one table for the most part. For years all I had was EFI but I came to a point where I had to buy HPT if I wanted to do certain things.

Im not attacking EFI in anyway, I think its great that there is a public forum where we can voice I opinions and requests and get to interact with the guys that make it happen.

[minytrker]

P.S. We haven't given up on the T43, however some of the tables are kicking our ass and we haven't been able to get those figured out yet. Working very closely with some of our tuner/customers we have come up what will probably turn out to be a far more effective tuning strategy for the T43. Have you seen this thread? http://forum.efilive.com/showthread....-removal/page8 from about post #72 onwards.

Regards
Paul

That doesn't address the lock up tables for the converter.