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Thread: Looking for mild heads/cam base tune 1999 LS1

  1. #1
    Junior Member krwyellowz28's Avatar
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    Default Looking for mild heads/cam base tune 1999 LS1

    I just finished the wrenching side of swapping a 1999 LS1/4L60e into my 1970 GTO Judge, and now I'm trying to sort out the tuning. Other than some Power Commander 3 experience on crotch rockets years ago and on our FSAE formula car, I am a complete noob to tuning and especially EFI Live. I hate asking for any more than advice and direction, but I am reading myself in circles trying to just understand how to get to the point where I can at least drive the car and log some data.

    From what i've gathered, I've got terrible timing jumping into the EFI Live scene... custom tune libraries have been shut down, bouncing b/w V7 and V8 was confusing at first, and the TAQuickness plug n play cable to make my LM-2 work with the V2 is no longer offered.

    Here's what I'm working with:
    - EFI Live V2 Scan and Tune
    - Innovate LM-2 with a serial cable I made to plug n play with the V2.
    - Going speed density right off the bat per the recommendation of several friends with experience.

    Drivetrain:
    - Stock bottom end 1999 LS1
    - 799 heads with a home port/polish, 3 angle valve job, and .600" 918 springs
    - heads decked .005" to true them up, and .040" MLS head gaskets (instead of the stock .052")
    - Comp 222/224 .556/.568 on 112 cam
    - Typhoon 85mm intake and throttle body.
    - Stock 1999 26 lb/hr @ 58 psi injectors with billet rails
    - Long tube headers and 2.5" duals w/X-pipe
    - 4L60 has been beefed up and running a Yank SS3600

    I realize the cam is very mismatched for the rest of the setup... I spec'd and bought it when the plan was to do a cam only LS1 w/stock intake, TB, heads, and smaller or stock stall, but as you can see the plans changed. I'm considering a cam upgrade at the end of the year somewhere between a 228R and a TSP V2. With the entire combination I'm really leaning towards the bigger end to make use of these heads.

    I am getting familiar with the software, and already did a full flash of the stock 1999 PCM to a hybrid stock 1999/2002 12212156 OS with all the unnecessary junk turned off, and plan to upgrade to the COS5 02020002 operating system. Right now I'm just looking for a tune that will get the car in the ball park and driveable.

    Wow, that was long winded, but I appreciate any help.

  2. #2
    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
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    Hi krw,

    You can make/adapt a serial comms cable... for the simplest/cheapest solution see post #3 here: serial-port-cable-that-goes-to-v2

  3. #3
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    Glad to see you made it over from LS1Tech.

    Look at the Calc.VET tutorial, once you get your WBO2 setup you can dial your MAF/VE tables in quickly. Calc.VET Correcting MAF and calculating VE (in-single-log)

    In regards to your 85mm tb, if you use a LS7 MAF (blade-style), it can be mounted in whatever diameter pipe you want. Mine, for example, is mounted in my 4" intake for my TBSS. Since you already ditched it, you can get it tuned just fine SD, but be warned you might have some weird issues if the temp and/or altitude varies a lot from where you tuned it.
    ~Erik~
    2013 Sonic RS Manual - 1.4L I4T E78, tuned, turbo mods, etc.
    2008 TrailBlazer SS 3SS AWD Summit White - LS2 E67/T42, bolt ons, suspension, etc.
    2002 Chevy TrailBlazer LT 4X4 Summit White - 4.2L I6 P10, lifted, wheels, etc.

  4. #4
    Junior Member krwyellowz28's Avatar
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    joecar: I used that thread and one other to get the wiring schematic to make my own harness out of a new Innovate LM-2 cable and then cut the end off and replace with the RJ-12 plug pigtail. It makes sense in my head, but I haven't tried it yet.

    Scarab: I hadn't considered the blade style MAF... I'll look into that more if I have to go back to MAF. For the time being I want to get the car running as is MAFless. I re-read the calc.VET tutorial again last night, and its making more sense every time I go over it. I'll be honest, the first time I read over it, I didn't absorb much because of the MAF references, and I assumed the process wasn't applicable for going SD. Is that technique still applicable for SD and VE tables if I ignore the MAF portions?

    The best explination I've been able to find for a brand new EFI Live user like myself is from SSpdDmon:

    Quote Originally Posted by SSpdDmon View Post
    First, some helpful tips since you sound new to this: Open the tuning tool and hit Alt+Enter. Change the fueling display values to AFR. That way, you don't have to worry about dealing with EQ or Lambda. Then, download your tune out of your car. If it's not a stock tune, download a copy of a stock tune for your car from www.holdencrazy.com for reference. You can compare your current tune with another tune (e.g. the stock one) by hitting Ctrl+F11 as long as they have the same operating system. Ctrl+4 will show you the current file and Ctrl+5 will show you the alternate/comparison file.

    You force your car into open loop by setting the closed loop temp enable table to its maximum across the board. This disables STFTs and closed loop. You should also turn off LTFTs and DFCO (set temp enable to it's max). Set your Commanded Fueling in Open Loop table to a 14.63 AFR from 158*F on up and set your PE table appropriately (e.g. a 12.5:1 AFR is a good target for NA cars). You might want to drop the PE TPS enable table a little too.

    Now you're in open loop. The MAF is still active and influencing fueling. If you want to go to speed density, you need to disable the MAF under Engine Diagnostics. Set the high fail frequency to 1 and the fail limit to 1 (C2901 and C2903). This will trigger an SES light. You can turn that off in the first few rows of the DTC MIL section. In speed density, the timing scaler reverts the PCM to the low octane timing table. You need to copy the values in the high octane table to the low octane table.

    Now, you're in open loop speed density (no MAF). Depending on how heavily modified your car is, you want to go to the VE table and change a few cells. If you're just a bolt-ons car, you should probably increase the VE 5% from 40~105kPa and 2000~8000 rpms. That'll help keep you from running too lean the first time around. Other setups will require different changes (e.g. cammed cars need to remove fuel from the stock VE below 1600rpms in order to idle....however, they need more than 5% above 2400rpms).

    Those are the firsts step in getting there. I just realized all of this is in the tutorial along with the remaining steps. So, check that out...
    What other tips do you have like in the last paragraph? I didn't clearly mention this in my original post, but the car will barely even idle as it sits now, and there's no way I can drive it. Barely touching the throttle makes it cough and want to die.

  5. #5
    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
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    Also, does the LM-2 have a SERIAL IN input...? if so it may require a terminator (would have come with).

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  7. #7
    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
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    Calc.VET does two things simultaneously:
    - corrects MAF table based on LTFT (CL) and wideband (non-CL),
    - calculated a new VE table from the corrected MAF table.

  8. #8
    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
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    Also note the relationship between the following:
    - AutoMAF is a subset of Calc.VET,
    - AutoVE is a subset of Calc.MAFT.


    See post #29 here: Summary-Notes

  9. #9
    Joe (Moderator) joecar's Avatar
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    Calc.VET is very easy to do, so it would be good to try out first.

  10. #10
    Junior Member krwyellowz28's Avatar
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    Hmm, I thought I posted back this morning... I must not have hit the "post reply". Anyway, the cable is an RJ-12 pigtail spliced to the Innovate serial cable, and I used that thread and one other to get the correct pin-out. The LM-2 does have a Serial In, but going off other posts and what TAQuickness used to sell, it looks like I should be ok with just my cable.

    Scarab, I hadn't considered the blade MAF, so that may be an option if I go the MAF route, but for now I'd like to try sticking with SD. I read the calc.VET tutorial about 2 weeks ago, but honestly didn't absorb much b/c of all the MAF information, and I assumed it wouldn't apply to SD tuning. I re-read it again last night (made a lot more sense this time), but for my scenario do I just ignore the MAF portions?

    I might now have been clear about the current state of the car in my first post, but it'll barely idle. I think it will idle well enough to get up to temp, but I haven't let it blubber for that long yet. It wants to die as soon as i touch the throttle. One of the most helpful posts I've read so far is from SSpdDmon several years ago:

    Quote Originally Posted by SSpdDmon View Post
    First, some helpful tips since you sound new to this: Open the tuning tool and hit Alt+Enter. Change the fueling display values to AFR. That way, you don't have to worry about dealing with EQ or Lambda. Then, download your tune out of your car. If it's not a stock tune, download a copy of a stock tune for your car from www.holdencrazy.com for reference. You can compare your current tune with another tune (e.g. the stock one) by hitting Ctrl+F11 as long as they have the same operating system. Ctrl+4 will show you the current file and Ctrl+5 will show you the alternate/comparison file.

    You force your car into open loop by setting the closed loop temp enable table to its maximum across the board. This disables STFTs and closed loop. You should also turn off LTFTs and DFCO (set temp enable to it's max). Set your Commanded Fueling in Open Loop table to a 14.63 AFR from 158*F on up and set your PE table appropriately (e.g. a 12.5:1 AFR is a good target for NA cars). You might want to drop the PE TPS enable table a little too.

    Now you're in open loop. The MAF is still active and influencing fueling. If you want to go to speed density, you need to disable the MAF under Engine Diagnostics. Set the high fail frequency to 1 and the fail limit to 1 (C2901 and C2903). This will trigger an SES light. You can turn that off in the first few rows of the DTC MIL section. In speed density, the timing scaler reverts the PCM to the low octane timing table. You need to copy the values in the high octane table to the low octane table.

    Now, you're in open loop speed density (no MAF). Depending on how heavily modified your car is, you want to go to the VE table and change a few cells. If you're just a bolt-ons car, you should probably increase the VE 5% from 40~105kPa and 2000~8000 rpms. That'll help keep you from running too lean the first time around. Other setups will require different changes (e.g. cammed cars need to remove fuel from the stock VE below 1600rpms in order to idle....however, they need more than 5% above 2400rpms).

    Those are the firsts step in getting there. I just realized all of this is in the tutorial along with the remaining steps. So, check that out...
    Are there any other generic tips/tricks like in his last paragraph that I can change manually to get it to idle better so it will at least stay running in gear? Thanks for the replies... I've got plenty to mess with tonight!

    Kyle

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