Info on New LML engines for 2011

[vortecfcar]

I've pulled one of those case backs off before, Ross is spot on. That's some nasty weather-tight sealant.

So pretty much a $4100 tuner expense and it requires the ecm to come out, be uncovered and bench flashed any time a change is made. This, of course assuming it works.

I admire their persistence

[Cougar281]

The OBD-II Spec REQUIRES the modules to be flash programmable (I'm not sure that the same requirement exists in the European markets).... Might be a stupid question, but how can GM (or any manufacturer) lock it down so we the tuners can't flash them, but they can flash update them? I would think that if they can flash them, either with a TechII (might be depreciated) or MDI, then you should be able to get into them as well.

[GMPX]

But how do you flash them when you don't have a file to flash them with?

[8100 Power]

But how do you flash them when you don't have a file to flash them with?

Are you saying that you can't get the original bin from the ECM to get your starting point?

[GMPX]

Yes, that is one of the main problems that exists, the door has been shut by Bosch, probably on request from GM. The issue there is the Bosch ECM's don't allow bootloaders to be sent and executed in them (like all Delphi ECM's), so we can't even write something to get around it. Not being able to read the European Bosch Diesel computers from the OBD-II port has be a problem for many years, hence the pull apart to read/program method some tuners have to resort to, but even now that doesn't work on some newer models.
You know how EFILive can block all reading on the DSP tunes for LBZ/LMM, well essentially the LML ECM comes from GM like that.

HERE is a good link from a European tuning company explaining the tuning woes of the EDC17 ECM. If you get to the end of the first post then you are probably thinking we can just use the 'pull apart and probe method' for the LML (worst case), well maybe not, because I am told there is 2010+ models of this ECM that now has that blocked too.

[bballer182]

Yes, that is one of the main problems that exists, the door has been shut by Bosch, probably on request from GM. The issue there is the Bosch ECM's don't allow bootloaders to be sent and executed in them (like all Delphi ECM's), so we can't even write something to get around it. Not being able to read the European Bosch Diesel computers from the OBD-II port has be a problem for many years, hence the pull apart to read/program method some tuners have to resort to, but even now that doesn't work on some newer models.
You know how EFILive can block all reading on the DSP tunes for LBZ/LMM, well essentially the LML ECM comes from GM like that.

HERE is a good link from a European tuning company explaining the tuning woes of the EDC17 ECM. If you get to the end of the first post then you are probably thinking we can just use the 'pull apart and probe method' for the LML (worst case), well maybe not, because I am told there is 2010+ models of this ECM that now has that blocked too.

All i'm gunna say is wow. Just read that link...

But on the other hand, nothing is un-hackable. it just depends on time and money. And Ross i know you are limited by both. So, whatever it is that is decided for the future of the LML, Good Luck.

[GMPX]

But on the other hand, nothing is un-hackable. it just depends on time and money.

Can you imagine how every Duramax tuner would feel about tuning the LML if it meant pulling the ECM out of the truck, pulling it apart, attaching some wires to the PCB and flashing.......for EVERY tune change. Who would bother when the risk of damaging the ECM is very high and they cannot be obtained from GM as spares.
Whilst we understand that many of our Diesel customers might not be happy to hear all this, it's not 'our' fault GM chose this new controller for the LML.

[JoshH]

I heard Bully Dog has already flashed an LML.

[Cougar281]

But how do you flash them when you don't have a file to flash them with?

I guess that could be an issue . Might talk to CalEditor... From reading posts (around here, I think), it seems like he's figured out how to get the bins out of TIS2Web in between the download from GM and the flash to controller.

Can you imagine how every Duramax tuner would feel about tuning the LML if it meant pulling the ECM out of the truck, pulling it apart, attaching some wires to the PCB and flashing.......for EVERY tune change. Who would bother when the risk of damaging the ECM is very high and they cannot be obtained from GM as spares.
Whilst we understand that many of our Diesel customers might not be happy to hear all this, it's not 'our' fault GM chose this new controller for the LML.

On that note, what are the odds of you getting the stock bins out of the ECM by opening the ECM and reading them directly, then using that as your base for flashing the ECm through the OBD2 port?

[GMPX]

I heard Bully Dog has already flashed an LML.

Flashing is not the problem, flashing is no different to any other Bosch ECM.

I guess that could be an issue . Might talk to CalEditor... From reading posts (around here, I think), it seems like he's figured out how to get the bins out of TIS2Web in between the download from GM and the flash to controller.

We can do that too, but that is not the answer for a product like ours.
Opening up ECM's is not something we would consider as the solution for our customers, if that is what you want to do then send an ECM over to one of the European companies and see what they come up with.